STORM2K

NDG wrote:

psyclone wrote:It's nice to see some local bay area mets are finally beginning to question the obs coming out of Tampa international airport. I've long viewed them as suspect now bordering on absurd. In such an observation rich environment I wonder why persistent statistical outliers were roundly accepted absent question. Now long overdue questions are being asked and hopefully someone digs up some answers and fixes whatever may be inaccurate. If you believe the obs (I'm now firmly in the "don't believe/something's wrong" camp) today's high of 96 breaks the all time high for October.

I wouldn't question it too much, offshore winds usually have the warmest effects closest to a body of water, add to it the heat island effect and it does not sound too way off. Every time I am in Tampa and I stay by the airport I do feel the difference of how warmer or hotter it is compared to areas just east of town. If it is off is probably by a degree or two, IMO.

I think it's more meaningful than that and other obs seem to back that up. it's been during the past 3 years that things seem to have really gone off the rails. whether the sensor was moved or development resulted in it being too close to runway/pavement...something has meaningfully inflated numbers. they simply no longer pass a horse sense test and someone needs to figure out what's going on. It's reached a point where i question the validity of many of the heat records the last 3 years. Even right now KTPA is running well ahead of every other ob in the bay area. Color me unsurprised.

psyclone wrote:

NDG wrote:

psyclone wrote:It's nice to see some local bay area mets are finally beginning to question the obs coming out of Tampa international airport. I've long viewed them as suspect now bordering on absurd. In such an observation rich environment I wonder why persistent statistical outliers were roundly accepted absent question. Now long overdue questions are being asked and hopefully someone digs up some answers and fixes whatever may be inaccurate. If you believe the obs (I'm now firmly in the "don't believe/something's wrong" camp) today's high of 96 breaks the all time high for October.

I wouldn't question it too much, offshore winds usually have the warmest effects closest to a body of water, add to it the heat island effect and it does not sound too way off. Every time I am in Tampa and I stay by the airport I do feel the difference of how warmer or hotter it is compared to areas just east of town. If it is off is probably by a degree or two, IMO.

I think it's more meaningful than that and other obs seem to back that up. it's been during the past 3 years that things seem to have really gone off the rails. whether the sensor was moved or development resulted in it being too close to runway/pavement...something has meaningfully inflated numbers. they simply no longer pass a horse sense test and someone needs to figure out what's going on. It's reached a point where i question the validity of many of the heat records the last 3 years. Even right now KTPA is running well ahead of every other ob in the bay area. Color me unsurprised.

I found this very interesting site, it shows where the sensor is, between one of the runways and the road to the airport. It does seem to question the temperature data that it is not within range of other nearby sensors, but the nearest official sensor is 4.6 miles away at the Univ of Tampa.

https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/KTPA

NDG wrote:

psyclone wrote:

NDG wrote:
I wouldn't question it too much, offshore winds usually have the warmest effects closest to a body of water, add to it the heat island effect and it does not sound too way off. Every time I am in Tampa and I stay by the airport I do feel the difference of how warmer or hotter it is compared to areas just east of town. If it is off is probably by a degree or two, IMO.

I think it's more meaningful than that and other obs seem to back that up. it's been during the past 3 years that things seem to have really gone off the rails. whether the sensor was moved or development resulted in it being too close to runway/pavement...something has meaningfully inflated numbers. they simply no longer pass a horse sense test and someone needs to figure out what's going on. It's reached a point where i question the validity of many of the heat records the last 3 years. Even right now KTPA is running well ahead of every other ob in the bay area. Color me unsurprised.

I found this very interesting site, it shows where the sensor is, between one of the runways and the road to the airport. It does seem to question the temperature data that it is not within range of other nearby sensors, but the nearest official sensor is 4.6 miles away at the Univ of Tampa.

https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/KTPA

Just out of curiosity..... what do local "unofficial" homeowner weather stations show for temps in relation to your Tampa airport obs?? Weather Underground seems to have a ton of 'em and they're all easily and free accessible to the public to see and follow. Obviously they have no official calibration or verification but regardless, as a group they would logically show a reasonable average of reported local area temps. I do not know whether these other local weather stations would make your point and commonly show temps several degrees cooler then the airport, or in fact corroborate the airport's reported high temps. Either way though, this would seem a reasonable way to help put an end to the debate once and for all.

One of our local mets just said the NWS is considering moving the KTPA sensor. It will be interesting to see what they ultimately decide. In the meantime we look to remain well above normal temp wise for the first half of October. The breeze and lower dewpoints are a huge help as compared to a couple of weeks ago. so we are making progress. Longer nights and shorter days really start to exert influence as we head into October...the sun is like early March now. still packs a punch but summer it is not.

chaser1 wrote:

NDG wrote:

psyclone wrote:
I think it's more meaningful than that and other obs seem to back that up. it's been during the past 3 years that things seem to have really gone off the rails. whether the sensor was moved or development resulted in it being too close to runway/pavement...something has meaningfully inflated numbers. they simply no longer pass a horse sense test and someone needs to figure out what's going on. It's reached a point where i question the validity of many of the heat records the last 3 years. Even right now KTPA is running well ahead of every other ob in the bay area. Color me unsurprised.

I found this very interesting site, it shows where the sensor is, between one of the runways and the road to the airport. It does seem to question the temperature data that it is not within range of other nearby sensors, but the nearest official sensor is 4.6 miles away at the Univ of Tampa.

https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/KTPA

Just out of curiosity..... what do local "unofficial" homeowner weather stations show for temps in relation to your Tampa airport obs?? Weather Underground seems to have a ton of 'em and they're all easily and free accessible to the public to see and follow. Obviously they have no official calibration or verification but regardless, as a group they would logically show a reasonable average of reported local area temps. I do not know whether these other local weather stations would make your point and commonly show temps several degrees cooler then the airport, or in fact corroborate the airport's reported high temps. Either way though, this would seem a reasonable way to help put an end to the debate once and for all.

I checked some WU personal stations around the airport yesterday, most of them were lower than the airport's high temp, but there was a big range in between some of them.

Will have to wait a long while for fall to make its full appearance here in Florida. But for now this will have to do.

 https://twitter.com/ericblake12/status/1047492614440845313

Today has been breezy and drier in comparison to previous days.

There was talk on local media that Tampa Airports observation instruments may be moved very soon.
Also the record highs that past few days will be rescinded.
I don't agree about going that far with this.
One can take several samplings around the property there and I doubt any would be the same.
No one can say that there is a wrong one IMO.

MetroMike wrote:There was talk on local media that Tampa Airports observation instruments may be moved very soon.
Also the record highs that past few days will be rescinded.
I don't agree about going that far with this.
One can take several samplings around the property there and I doubt any would be the same.
No one can say that there is a wrong one IMO.

Bay news 9 OCM Josh linker (who is a member here) has an excellent piece on the topic.

http://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/weathe ... re-problem

I suspect the obs at ktpa have been off for a long time.

psyclone wrote:

MetroMike wrote:There was talk on local media that Tampa Airports observation instruments may be moved very soon.
Also the record highs that past few days will be rescinded.
I don't agree about going that far with this.
One can take several samplings around the property there and I doubt any would be the same.
No one can say that there is a wrong one IMO.

Bay news 9 OCM Josh linker (who is a member here) has an excellent piece on the topic.

http://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/weathe ... re-problem

I suspect the obs at ktpa have been off for a long time.

My question is will it make a big difference if it is moved to a different spot in the airport's property, is not like is sitting on top of a runway, is a good 50 yards away from it, the only difference will be if it is moved under the shade in the multi level parking lot.
It seems to me that it is a problem of calibration more than anything.

TheStormExpert wrote:Will have to wait a long while for fall to make its full appearance here in Florida. But for now this will have to do.

https://twitter.com/ericblake12/status/1047492614440845313

Is sad that we think a cold front is nothing more than a back door front off of the subtropical Atlantic to lower the dewpoints by a few degrees and not drier and cooler from the continental US.

I will take it any way I can. LEHIGH ACRES Florida was 69* for a low and 86* for a high. Humidity was lower. It didn’t feel like Death Valley drowning out there Wednesday.

I will say this the weather has become much more comfortable over the past couple of weeks. Drier air aloft has dramatically reduced afternoon convection and allows more reasonable dewpoints to mix down during the heat of the day. toss in a nice breeze and it's pretty nice. It's good for a night run again..

All thanks to Leslie's circulation with some "cooler" & "drier" north Atlantic maritime air rotating around it and then making it our way thanks to the SE US ridge, much deeper tropical air mass from the Caribbean will be back next week.

We had some squally weather yesterday morning, but now it seems there's a blob of mid-level dry air making its way over SFL. It is not pleasant out there right now....a little breeze is about it in terms of being more comfortable. Some thin low level cumulus.

It is another amazing morning here. we don't need no stinking cold front. shorter days force nature to take the foot off the gas.

So much for that squally wx across the mainland from Michael not much of anything at all.

Well, we are getting a prettygood on shore southeasterly fetch here in Jax currently with on and off heavy rain. Wind will increase tonight into tomorrow with Michael's approach from the west and southwest.

SFLcane wrote:So much for that squally wx across the mainland from Michael not much of anything at all.

We'll have to see if a "tail" from Michael sets up and starts training over us........sometimes that happens with storms in this position. I seem to remember getting very heavy rains from Ivan's tail in this manner.

The humidity getting advected over us right now is pretty disgusting......I wish it would rain to at least cool this off a bit.

Looks like South FL is about to get the very tail of Michael.