Large part of US below normal temps this past year

[caneman]

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/re ... ank_pg.gif


I wanted to post this in another forum but couldn't find it. Whereby when debating X-Y-No I mentioned that this year would likely shape up to below normal when the numbers came out. It iisn't even accounting for an unusually cold Feb 09 here in Florida. Well here you go. Hard to argue for sky is falling, man made forcing, catastrophe is about to happen with this. Of course, unless you change the rules of what it means

It certainly appears it could be cyclical but even if not 10-20 years of data isn't enough to jump off the cliff or slit your wrist over. Much more unbiased science and time will be needed.

[x-y-no]

Regional does not equal global. Nobody has disputed that we saw a significant cool anomaly in eastern North America this last year.

[caneman]

That is a good point but note that artic ice melt has slowed this year. We will have to wait and see if these colder N.A. temps lead to colder worldwide temps.

[Sanibel]

Cooling trend???

TWC (Around February 2nd):

The total of record lows around the whole USA for the last week was 58 while the total of record high temperatures was 402.

For the last month, the total of record lows was 555 while the total of record highs was 1209.

From 2003 to the present, the total number of record low temperatures nationwide was 134,826 and the total of record high temperatures was 269,156.

[caneman]

Sanibel,

did you not look at the link?

[MGC]

Europe has had a colder winter also so the weather has been colder on a global scale. Just because there has not been a zillion record lows does not mean it has not been cooler than normal. Face it, the fear that the GW crowd has been spreading the past decade has not come to pass plain and simple. The economic depression the world is entering will do way more to reduce the emission of CO2 than all the chicken little banter the GW crowd has crowed as of late.....MGC

[x-y-no]

Europe has had a colder winter also so the weather has been colder on a global scale. Just because there has not been a zillion record lows does not mean it has not been cooler than normal. Face it, the fear that the GW crowd has been spreading the past decade has not come to pass plain and simple. The economic depression the world is entering will do way more to reduce the emission of CO2 than all the chicken little banter the GW crowd has crowed as of late.....MGC

Even North America and Europe together aren't even remotely all of the globe. Less than 7% of the surface of the Earth, in fact.

[Sanibel]

Europe has had a colder winter also so the weather has been colder on a global scale. Just because there has not been a zillion record lows does not mean it has not been cooler than normal. Face it, the fear that the GW crowd has been spreading the past decade has not come to pass plain and simple. The economic depression the world is entering will do way more to reduce the emission of CO2 than all the chicken little banter the GW crowd has crowed as of late.....MGC

In my opinion the 'banter' comes from the side that ignores the significance of Australian heat records at a time when they are saying the Earth is cooling and therefore refuting global warming. I see a disconnect there that deserves more than silence as a response.

There appears to be a pattern of arguments that respond to popular anti-global warming politics rather than the science. I honestly think some people are dealing with this on the level of "Al Gore said the world would be burning up and look it's nice and cold". I really take exception to people saying gw fears haven't come to pass with so many real effects happening out there. Just because global warming isn't attacking your home town doesn't mean it deserves to be ridiculed. Again, I don't think the gw side would get away with this.

[MGC]

Well, according to Al Gore, global warming did in fact attack my home. The attack came in the form of Hurricane Katrina. Of course, I reject Gore's argument, I even tried to sit though his movie but couldn't because of the misleading content. The fact that one area of the world has a record head wave don't prove that the Earth is warming. There have been many heat waves over the years. Sanibel, I'm sure you recall Hurricane Charley. The front that pushed Charley east was responsible for setting record low temperatures here on the Mississippi Coast for 5 consecutive morning. The string of 5 consecutive were also a record for most consecutive record lows in a row, all in August. I recall sitting though a very memorable heat wave in 1980, just about when all this GW malarkey started. I am of the opinion that the recent warming is cyclical in nature, just as the Medieval warm period gave way to the Little Ice Age. The Earth warms up, then cools off due to changes in the Earth's orbital dynamics and solar output...MGC

[x-y-no]

Well, according to Al Gore, global warming did in fact attack my home. The attack came in the form of Hurricane Katrina.

When did he do that? In every case I've seen or read, his movie, his Sierra Club speech on Katrina, etc. he was very careful not to attribute Katrina to global warming.

Of course, I reject Gore's argument, I even tried to sit though his movie but couldn't because of the misleading content. The fact that one area of the world has a record head wave don't prove that the Earth is warming. There have been many heat waves over the years.

That's true. But once again, my recollection of his movie and other statements is that he's quite careful not to attribute individual events to climate change. What he does (correctly) say is that as the Earth warms we can expect a greater frequency of such extreme warm events.

Sanibel, I'm sure you recall Hurricane Charley. The front that pushed Charley east was responsible for setting record low temperatures here on the Mississippi Coast for 5 consecutive morning. The string of 5 consecutive were also a record for most consecutive record lows in a row, all in August. I recall sitting though a very memorable heat wave in 1980, just about when all this GW malarkey started. I am of the opinion that the recent warming is cyclical in nature, just as the Medieval warm period gave way to the Little Ice Age. The Earth warms up, then cools off due to changes in the Earth's orbital dynamics and solar output...MGC

I think it's incumbent on anyone who takes that position to explain why the well-known role of greenhouse gasses in the atmospheric radiative balance would suddenly not apply when those gasses are introduced by human activity. The only serious attempt to do that that I've ever seen was Richard Lindzen's "Iris Effect" hypothesis which received a great deal of serious attention and was the subject of quite a lot of research, but which was not supported by the results of that research.

[Sanibel]

Well, according to Al Gore, global warming did in fact attack my home. The attack came in the form of Hurricane Katrina.

2005 was above 1933. There's no way to tell if the extra was from global warming. The people of an Alaskan town having to be moved inland because of ocean erosion caused by less sea ice might have a different opinion. As would a town dependent on drying glacial run-off.

The fact that one area of the world has a record head wave don't prove that the Earth is warming. There have been many heat waves over the years.

I think that is oversimplified. The context was prolonged record heat near 47c during a time when people are saying a cold winter is disproving global warming.

Sanibel, I'm sure you recall Hurricane Charley. The front that pushed Charley east was responsible for setting record low temperatures here on the Mississippi Coast for 5 consecutive morning. The string of 5 consecutive were also a record for most consecutive record lows in a row, all in August.

Bingo. I've been explaining amplitude here repeatedly but people don't seem to understand it. Global warming might not come in the expected form. Amplitude is increased strength in weather and weather systems due to global warming adding more heat to the atmosphere and causing more energy within the atmosphere. This means weather systems are able to pull cool weather from further north during summer. That cold front was unusual for August. Unusual weather is a sign of global warming. Which is exactly why the 69*f temperature the day after the 118*f temperature in Melbourne was showing us an energized atmosphere capable of sharp swings.

I recall sitting though a very memorable heat wave in 1980, just about when all this GW malarkey started. I am of the opinion that the recent warming is cyclical in nature, just as the Medieval warm period gave way to the Little Ice Age. The Earth warms up, then cools off due to changes in the Earth's orbital dynamics and solar output...MGC

I don't think it is scientific to ignore the billions of tons of man-made CO2 and its scientific consequences. Those other cycles happened without the current human input at a time with a completely different human footprint. They're not comparable.

[Sanibel]

Have to point out that record highs are currently hitting parts of the US in Arkansas and Montana. A sharp upswing from a cool winter.

[vbhoutex]

Have to point out that record highs are currently hitting parts of the US in Arkansas and Montana. A sharp upswing from a cool winter.

Go check the USA weather thread and tell me what the lows were in much of MT today. Nevermind, I did it for you. Wrong state??

Record Lows Fri Apr 24 2009

Cut Bank MT 5F
Great Falls MT 11F
Helena MT 17F
Lewiston ID 30F tied 2002

-justin-

Want to try that one again??

[jinftl]

According to NOAA, the year 2008 was the 8th warmest year on record globally.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories200 ... stats.html

So far for 2009 in the U.S., January was a bit above normal overall in the contiguous U.S. (0.4 deg above)
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories200 ... stats.html

February 2009 was 2.3 deg above average in the U.S. overall (contiguous U.S.)
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories200 ... stats.html

March 2009 was 0.6 above average in U.S. overall (contiguous U.S.)
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories200 ... stats.html

Not arguing there were some really cold shots and some areas were especially cold for a period....but when you start to put all the data together, averaging on the normal to somewhat above normal side. One cold front doesn't mean global warming is not legit...just as a very warm period of time in an area doesn't mean the world is warming. Important to keep in mind the temps in any one's individual community or region may not be representative of global trends.

[vbhoutex]

If you are talking to me I fully understand that. I was trying to correct misinformation.

[Sanibel]

While the cool winter was being used as proof Global Warming was a hoax today they expect record highs along the east coast. TWC gave the Montana information that day.

I my view the "misinformation" is a title that suggests Global Cooling while data shows above average temperatures.

[Sanibel]

97* in Minneapolis yesterday. Broke previous record high of 89*.


Cooling?

[RL3AO]

It was in the low 30s just 3 days earlier, just a few degrees of a record low. Its just one day.

[Sanibel]

Amplitude.

[gigabite]

It is warmer than last year.

2008 Perihelion Jan 3 00
2009 Perihelion Jan 4 15

My work is constrained by point selection. The first point is time. I chose the closest approach to the Sun. The second point is place I selected a place where the effects of ancient heat islands don’t blur the data, and the streaming real time data is machine recorded and reliable. The third point is a thing I look at a fraction of the Ice Shelf that has significance to the Atlantic basin.