NHC News Item

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#141 Postby artist » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:54 pm

This article says that Max Mayfield did have some problems before he stepped down with NOOA as well.

an excerpt -

NOAA recently has been making moves to renamed the weather service and other daughter agencies with the prefix "NOAA ..." leading to the new names "NOAA Weather Service," "NOAA Hurricane Center," etc. NOAA claims that the renaming plan is a positive way to further unity amongst its daughter agencies and promote NOAA's role is weather forecasting activities. However, not everyone seems happy with the plan and this is not the first time the proposal has been put forth.

After the success and publicity that the hurricane center and weather service gathered following Katrina in 2005, NOAA executives ordered the hurricane center to remove all NWS logos on their products and replace them with NOAA logos. Then director of the hurricane center, Max Mayfield, refused to do so amidst controversy within the government. After a House appropriations subcommittee chair contacted the Department of Commerce, NOAA's parent agency, the proposal was withdrawn. The committee stated that "these changes are unnecessary and that renaming could lead to confusion among users of long standing programs and services with substantial name recognition."

The proposal from NOAA to role the weather service and its budget into the greater NOAA appropirations has lit off a shower of email protests within the meteorological community. Protests are also focused around comments made by Bill Proenza, Director of the National Hurricane Center, claiming NOAA is spending $4 million on bicentential celebration at the same time that is has cut $700,000 from hurricane research.


http://www.thestormtrack.com/2007/05/tw ... e_amid.php
0 likes   

Irina
Tropical Low
Tropical Low
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Miami, 25.8N 80.2W

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#142 Postby Irina » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:04 pm

I haven't been able to read all the posts on this subject so if I am repeating something, please excuse me.
I read a while ago that Proenza was unhappy with NOAA for trying to make NHC go away and be NOAA (without the NHC distinction). I also remember reading that NOAA is planning on spending MILLIONS of dollars to celebrate their "100 year anniversary" and that Proenza felt that since NOAA had not been around 100 years, the money would be better spent to upgrade some of their needs. I also seem to remember Max Mayfield agreeing with him. I will try to dig up the article but my husband and I had a big laugh over the 100 year anniversary thing.........
But I do not remember Max Mayfield being quoted in that last Miami Herald article.
Can someone add to this or clear it up?
Thanks
irina (no longer in SXM but in Miami now)
0 likes   

User avatar
jasons2k
Storm2k Executive
Storm2k Executive
Posts: 8245
Age: 51
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: The Woodlands, TX

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#143 Postby jasons2k » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:17 pm

That article should have been proofread (role = roll). :uarrow:

Anyway, I think it's a sad state of affairs and I have mixed feelings. Half of me is behind Proenza for sticking his neck out and rightfully calling the 200-year celebration bogus (which it is - it is a PRIME example of wasting taxpayers' money) and the other half is saddened that the dirty laundry of such a respected organization is being aired in the media.

It's comporable to the Supreme Court IMO - there is plenty of dissent and heated debate behind closed-doors and traditionally, such discourse is kept from the public view out of respect for the institution.....at least until very recently with some of the more animated dissenting opinions becoming more personal and attacking of the opposing POV. In the long run, it does diminish credibility IMO.
0 likes   

User avatar
hial2
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:20 pm
Location: Indian trail N.C.

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#144 Postby hial2 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Alas,the way to survive in the real world is,to paraphrase Sgt Schultz in "Hogan's Heroes", "I see nooothing!"..Go with flow,don't make waves..and specially don't criticize publicly your superiors..

Right or wrong,this is life..let this be a lesson to you youngsters..
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

#145 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:30 pm

i still wonder if they would bring max back for a short term basis.. if for some reason they were able to oust porenza?
0 likes   

User avatar
jasons2k
Storm2k Executive
Storm2k Executive
Posts: 8245
Age: 51
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: The Woodlands, TX

#146 Postby jasons2k » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:34 pm

I think that's out of the question. Mayfield left because he wanted to. He's in the private sector now, living comfortably, I'm sure.
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

Re:

#147 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:36 pm

jschlitz wrote:I think that's out of the question. Mayfield left because he wanted to. He's in the private sector now, living comfortably, I'm sure.


yeah.. but you dont think if they asked him too on a temp basis..
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#148 Postby artist » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:45 pm

here is an article that I never saw regarding all this - interesting that the head of NOAA was called on by a Congressman- bet that might not have gone over too well.

http://www.upi.com/Security_Terrorism/B ... ails/4403/
Rep: Plan B if hurricane satellite fails?

Published: May 14, 2007 at 3:28 PM E-mail Story | Print Preview | License

WASHINGTON, May 14 (UPI) -- With experts predicting an active hurricane season, a U.S. congressman asked government agencies for a backup plan if the hurricane tracking satellite fails.
Rep. Nick Lampson, D-Texas, chairman of the House Energy and Environment Subcommittee, called on officials from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to provide answers about a research satellite that is used to help predict the strength and path of hurricanes.

"The QuikSCAT satellite, which tracks wind data at the ocean surface, is a NASA research mission which is producing data that NOAA finds valuable for improving predictions on the movement of hurricanes and the point of landfall," according to a statement issued Friday by the House Committee on Science and Technology.

The director of the National Hurricane Center recently indicated that loss of the data provided by the QuikSCAT satellite would reduce the accuracy of their two-day predictions by 10 percent and 16 percent for three-day forecasts, according to the committee's statement.

Lampson is concerned that, without a replacement for the QuikSCAT in place, the National Hurricane Center will be less accurate in forecasting hurricanes and forced to expand the areas receiving hurricane warnings and evacuation orders. The congressman represents the 22nd district of Texas, an area near the Gulf of Mexico that is prone to hurricanes.

"Our recent experience with evacuations clearly illustrates the need for accurate determinations of a hurricane's path," Lampson wrote in a letter to NOAA Undersecretary Vice Adm. Conrad Lautenbacher Jr. "We must be sure we use this vital life-saving procedure wisely and effectively. We can only accomplish that with accurate forecasting," he wrote.

Del.icio.us | Digg it | RSS

I had not seen this from the Miami Hearld either-

CRITIQUES LEADERS

Since taking the most prominent government job in meteorology, Proenza repeatedly has criticized his bosses at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, saying they have not provided the hurricane center with adequate research funds and failed to plan for the eventual demise of an important weather satellite.

He has been widely viewed as the underdog in a David vs. Goliath battle against the federal bureaucracy, a scenario the forecasters called misleading.

''The public debate has been extremely one-sided,'' said Franklin, who has been at the center since 1999 and with NOAA since 1982. ``Bill is viewed as a hero in the media for speaking up against NOAA management and he is portrayed as having the support of his staff.

''But the hurricane specialists, by and large, do not agree with much of what he has done,'' Franklin said.

In any event, as the drama played out, the climate at the hurricane center turned stormy. Some lower-ranking members of the staff support Proenza, and shouting matches between the two camps erupted Tuesday, several people said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/416/story/159712.html
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

#149 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:47 pm

crazy
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#150 Postby artist » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:49 pm

it is getting more and more interesting -
according to this article some in Congress are wanting the head of NOAA out-

Sunday, June 17, 2007

Stormy Forecast for NOAA's National Weather Service

Andrew Freedman @ 1:19 AM

There's a tempest brewing at NOAA's National Weather Service, and it's showing signs of intensifying.

Bill Proenza, the new director of the National Hurricane Center (NHC), is under fire for accusing his bosses of neglecting his important division.

One of Proenza's primary complaints concerns a touchy subject at NOAA: satellites. The agency's initiative to upgrade the nation's network of weather and climate satellites is currently years behind schedule and billions of dollars over budget. Some in Congress are calling for the NOAA administrator's head.

http://www.capitalweather.com/2007/06/f ... tional.php
0 likes   

User avatar
Tampa Bay Hurricane
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5597
Age: 37
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:54 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#151 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:53 pm

Sounds like a category 4 argument brewing at the
national hurricane center. Could intensify into a category
5 argument...with the high heat content of arguments
coming out...
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145923
Age: 69
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#152 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:53 pm

In any event, as the drama played out, the climate at the hurricane center turned stormy. Some lower-ranking members of the staff support Proenza, and shouting matches between the two camps erupted Tuesday, several people said.


I can't believe that kind of thing is going on in that office I mean the shouting matches.
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

#153 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:01 pm

they are just mad.. because of Katrina.. blaming everyone else..
0 likes   

User avatar
jasons2k
Storm2k Executive
Storm2k Executive
Posts: 8245
Age: 51
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: The Woodlands, TX

#154 Postby jasons2k » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:06 pm

Fox 26 in Houston will have a story on this tonight - the teaser said 'A storm is brewing at the NHC as the Director says the agency may not be prepared for the next Rita'.

I will post a link if they put up a video.
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#155 Postby artist » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 pm

Anyone that is scientifically trained can you tell me if this statement means that the quickscat is now even more important than in the past (or since this statement was written in Oct., 2002)?

2. Utilization of Satellite Data: The US should make an investment in finding optimal means to utilize satellite data, in combination with in situ data, in our ocean, and air sea coupled models, demonstrating their utility in an operational setting. NASA and NOAA have formed a collaborative Joint Center for Satellite Data Assimilation (JCSDA) to improve the exploitation of current satellite data and to prepare for more timely integration of future data in operational weather forecasts. DoD has recently been invited to become a partner in JCSDA, and both Navy and Air Force have accepted. JCSDA will promote the development of common weather forecast models for research and operations. A recent accomplishment of JCSDA is the inclusion of the operational implementation of QuickSCAT wind and Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission (TRMM) precipitation data in NOAA Weather Service operational models. This accomplishment represents the fist time NOAA has used data from research satellites controlled by NASA within the operational data stream used by NOAA’s Weather Service. Future efforts will lead to development of new and powerful mathematical techniques to assimilate current and NPOESS-era satellite data into numerical weather prediction models, improving the accuracy and extending the time range of weather and climate forecasts.


this is from

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF GREGORY W. WITHEE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR SATELLITE AND INFORMATION SERVICES NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE BEFORE THE U.S. COMMISSION ON OCEAN POLICY OCTOBER 30, 2002

http://www.oceancommission.gov/meetings ... timony.pdf
This was found on NOAA's site through search of quickscat
0 likes   

User avatar
Ivanhater
Storm2k Moderator
Storm2k Moderator
Posts: 11162
Age: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Pensacola

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#156 Postby Ivanhater » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:31 pm

hey artist...I was just reading the Irene thread from a couple of years ago and whoa...got heated at times...good to see you this season
0 likes   

philnyc
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:14 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Contact:

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#157 Postby philnyc » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:01 pm

hial2 wrote:Alas,the way to survive in the real world is,to paraphrase Sgt Schultz in "Hogan's Heroes", "I see nooothing!"..Go with flow,don't make waves..and specially don't criticize publicly your superiors..

Right or wrong,this is life..let this be a lesson to you youngsters..


Like George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Martin Luther King?
0 likes   

philnyc
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:14 am
Location: Brooklyn, New York City, New York
Contact:

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#158 Postby philnyc » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Toadstool wrote:
DanKellFla wrote:One think I don't understand is the public nature of the three forecasters comments. If it were me, I would just keep my mouth shut.


They wanted a different boss... for whatever reason, I'm not sure, but it's easy to understand they didn't like his management style and have made their chess move.



But why not until after a visit by government officials?
Last edited by philnyc on Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

Stratosphere747
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3772
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Surfside Beach/Freeport Tx
Contact:

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#159 Postby Stratosphere747 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:05 pm

Doubt Bill P. makes it another week. Nothing like a "mutiny" at the NHC during the hurricane season.

http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/161590.html

Statement signed from a good bit of the staff, including four of the senior forecasters, calling for Proenza's dismissal.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/200 ... ate.56.pdf
Last edited by Stratosphere747 on Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

tolakram
Admin
Admin
Posts: 20020
Age: 62
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Florence, KY (name is Mark)

Re: NHC News Item=Three NHC forecasters want Proenza to go

#160 Postby tolakram » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:06 pm

CNN top story now, sorry if this has been posted before.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/05/hurric ... index.html

Of particular interest to me:

Hurricane center staffers told CNN's John Zarrella they were not consulted before Proenza made the remarks and replacing the satellite would not be one of their priorities. But they said their dissatisfaction stems not only from Proenza's comments, but also from the environment at the center -- one of closed doors and the public airing of dirty laundry.

Those are 2 bozo nonos in management. :)
Last edited by tolakram on Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Stratton23 and 63 guests