2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Dora / Otis retired

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Will Any Storm Be Retired After the 2023 Season?

Poll ended at Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:40 pm

Yes
31
72%
No
12
28%
 
Total votes: 43

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Teban54
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#181 Postby Teban54 » Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:15 pm

For those who want to dig down the rabbit hole, here's a timeline of naming conventions in the Atlantic and EPAC in history.

Atlantic:
  • 1947: Phonetic alphabet started being used to name storms internally by Air Weather Service, but not to the public.
  • 1950: Phonetic alphabet was used in public. This was the first year in which Atlantic storms were given names.
  • 1953-54: The first naming list was created. At the time, the same naming list was to be used every year, and thus the same names were used in both years. 1953 was the first year in which Atlantic storms were given human names.
  • 1954: Three names were retired for the first time. At the time, they were to be retired for 10 years, after which they may be used again.
  • 1955-59: A new naming list was created at the start of each year. (Except Alice in 1955, which formed in December 1954 but was named in January 1955. This happened after the decision to use distinct naming lists per year was made, but before the 1955 list was created.)
  • 1960-70: 4 rotating naming lists were created and used.
  • 1969: Retirement of names became permanent, as opposed to for 10 years.
  • 1971-78: 10 rotating naming lists were created by NOAA, and were to be used for 1971-80 as the first rotation. However, only the first 8 were used.
  • 1972: Subtropical storms began to be officially recognized and started receiving names from the phonetic alphabet. Subtropical storms that later transition into fully tropical storms would receive a new name from the standard naming list upon transition.
  • 1979: The 6 modern naming lists were created by WMO and started this year, with both male and female names. (All earlier naming lists only included female names.) If the naming list was to be exhausted, Greek alphabet would be used (which happened in 2005 and 2020).
  • 2000: Storms that cross between Atlantic and East Pacific basins will now retain their name. Prior to this season, they would change to a new name from the second basin upon entering it, provided the intensity was at TS or higher. The last crossover storm to receive two names was Cesar-Douglas 1996; the first crossover storm to retain a single name was Otto 2016.
  • 2002: Subtropical storms now receive names from the standard naming list.
  • 2021: The use of the Greek alphabet was discontinued, and a new auxiliary list is created. Names will be pulled from the auxiliary list after the main list is exhausted.

Eastern Pacific:
  • 1960-1965: 4 naming lists with only female names were created. At that time, they were used in a "wraparound" fashion, where each year picked up from where the previous year left off, and a subsequent list would be used following the W storm in the previous list. 1960 was the first year in which EPAC storms were given names.
  • 1965: Despite finishing List 2 with Wallie during the season, subsequent storms returned to the start of List 2 with Ava.
  • 1966-1977: The 4 naming lists were now used in yearly rotations, starting with the A storm of a new list each year. Otherwise, the same 4 naming lists from 1960-65 were used: 1966 started with List 3 (following 1965's List 2).
  • 1978-1982: 4 of the 6 modern naming lists were created by WMO and rotated during these 5 years, with both male and female names. Initially, they were to be the only 4 naming lists in EPAC. They are today's List 4 (Aletta), List 1 (Andres), List 2 (Agatha) and List 3 (Adrian), in order from 1978 to 1981. If the naming list was to be exhausted, Greek alphabet would be used (which never happened in EPAC).
  • 1982: As the rotation cycled back to List 4, two more naming lists were added, presumably to line up with the Atlantic's rotations. List 5 (Adolph, later replaced with Alvin) was first used in 1983, and List 6 (Alma, later replaced with Amanda) in 1984.
  • 1985: X, Y and Z names were added to EPAC naming lists in October, due to the exceptionally active season causing fear of exhausting the naming list. These names rotate once every 2 years, unlike A-W names that rotate once every 6 years. The 1985 season only reached X; the 1992 season reached Z, while being the second and most recent time that the X name was used.
  • 2000: Storms that cross between Atlantic and East Pacific basins will now retain their name. Prior to this season, they would change to a new name from the second basin upon entering it, provided the intensity was at TS or higher. The last crossover storm to receive two names was Cesar-Douglas 1996; the first crossover storm to retain a single name was Otto 2016.
  • 2021: The use of the Greek alphabet was discontinued, and a new auxiliary list is created. Names will be pulled from the auxiliary list after the main list is exhausted. Note that EPAC's auxiliary list also contained X, Y and Z names, which are distinct from the two sets of X-Z names on the normal lists.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#182 Postby ljmac75 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:06 pm

If Dora and Otis are both retired, this should be the first time that two names in the Pacific are retired in the same year (unless you count Isis being removed from the list at the same meeting where Odile was removed).
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#183 Postby Hurricanehink » Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:52 pm

ljmac75 wrote:If Dora and Otis are both retired, this should be the first time that two names in the Pacific are retired in the same year (unless you count Isis being removed from the list at the same meeting where Odile was removed).


Both Pauline and Paka were retired after being used in 1997.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#184 Postby ljmac75 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:04 pm

Hurricanehink wrote:
ljmac75 wrote:If Dora and Otis are both retired, this should be the first time that two names in the Pacific are retired in the same year (unless you count Isis being removed from the list at the same meeting where Odile was removed).


Both Pauline and Paka were retired after being used in 1997.

I completely forgot about the central pacific, although apparently Paka wasn't actually retired until 2006 for some reason.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#185 Postby Hurricanehink » Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:36 pm

ljmac75 wrote:
Hurricanehink wrote:
ljmac75 wrote:If Dora and Otis are both retired, this should be the first time that two names in the Pacific are retired in the same year (unless you count Isis being removed from the list at the same meeting where Odile was removed).


Both Pauline and Paka were retired after being used in 1997.

I completely forgot about the central pacific, although apparently Paka wasn't actually retired until 2006 for some reason.


Everyone forgets about the CPAC, it's ok :D The CPHC redid their naming list around that time, so Paka was removed at the same time Ioke was. https://web.archive.org/web/20070927213057/http://www.ofcm.gov/homepage/text/spc_proj/ihc/action-items.pdf
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#186 Postby CrazyC83 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:03 pm

GSBHurricane wrote:
DioBrando wrote:
GSBHurricane wrote:Wasn't Hazel retired in the EPAC after 1965? Also, given Hawaii's history with requesting names to be retired, I wouldn't be surprised if Dora's retirement from the EPAC is rejected.


Did NHC or CPHC ask Dora to be retired?

I'm not sure what it says but I'm willing to bet the CPHC is asking the NHC to do it.


If that is the case, the Wikipedia Atlantic article needs to be changed, since neither of them can take the primary role.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#187 Postby CrazyC83 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:04 pm

DioBrando wrote:
GSBHurricane wrote:
DioBrando wrote:Could Franklin be rejected

Franklin probably won't be rejected, given that 1.7 million people (or households, depending on your source) lost potable water in the Dominican Republic due to Franklin and it wiped out all access to 24 communities. That's not something to be overlooked.

Imagine if Franklin gets retired and Idalia stays :eek: :eek: :eek:


It appears quite likely Idalia is going to survive for 2029 at this point. No indication of any retirement cases.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#188 Postby DioBrando » Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:13 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:
DioBrando wrote:
GSBHurricane wrote:Franklin probably won't be rejected, given that 1.7 million people (or households, depending on your source) lost potable water in the Dominican Republic due to Franklin and it wiped out all access to 24 communities. That's not something to be overlooked.

Imagine if Franklin gets retired and Idalia stays :eek: :eek: :eek:


It appears quite likely Idalia is going to survive for 2029 at this point. No indication of any retirement cases.

Where are you getting this from?
Who do you see being removed?
Last edited by DioBrando on Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#189 Postby DioBrando » Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:13 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:
GSBHurricane wrote:
DioBrando wrote:
Did NHC or CPHC ask Dora to be retired?

I'm not sure what it says but I'm willing to bet the CPHC is asking the NHC to do it.


If that is the case, the Wikipedia Atlantic article needs to be changed, since neither of them can take the primary role.

What's the Atlantic article?
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#190 Postby cycloneye » Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:01 pm

The WMO meeting for this topic is occuring in Panama.

 https://twitter.com/NWSNHC/status/1769792329328607360


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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#191 Postby Buck » Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:51 am

No news yet?
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top)

#192 Postby cycloneye » Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:01 am

Buck wrote:No news yet?


Nothing yet that I have seen about 2023 retirements.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#193 Postby cycloneye » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:16 pm

Dora and Otis retired

None in North Atlantic was retired.

https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/wmo-h ... -name-list
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#194 Postby Hurricane2022 » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:26 pm

Debora and Otilio are the new names chosen to replace Dora and Otis from the rotating list of names for tropical cyclones in the East Pacific.
 https://twitter.com/WMO/status/1770499781716037712


Last edited by Hurricane2022 on Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#195 Postby aspen » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:30 pm

cycloneye wrote:Dora and Otis retired

None in North Atlantic was retired.

https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/wmo-h ... -name-list

2 EPac names retired and none in the Atlantic? Is this a first?

Otis was a given but I’m surprised they axed Dora. I wasn’t sure if its role in the Hawaii wildfires would count as direct enough impacts for the WMO to retire it.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#196 Postby Hurricane2022 » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:34 pm

aspen wrote:
cycloneye wrote:Dora and Otis retired

None in North Atlantic was retired.

https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/wmo-h ... -name-list

2 EPac names retired and none in the Atlantic? Is this a first?

Otis was a given but I’m surprised they axed Dora. I wasn’t sure if its role in the Hawaii wildfires would count as direct enough impacts for the WMO to retire it.

 https://twitter.com/NWSNHC/status/1770502492066881568



Looks like that Idalia and Franklin will both stay alive.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#197 Postby zzzh » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:50 pm

No storm retired from the Atlantic.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#198 Postby HurricaneRyan » Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:55 pm

Honestly, I understand why Dora got the axe. It's indirect link to something truly horrific is something that only Californians or other wildfire states would understand. What happened in Hawaii reminded me a lot of the imagery from the Camp Fire six years ago.

Hilary may have been a storm that caused a lot of us in California to panic, but outside of it being a rainy day, we didn't suffer any long term affects from Hilary's impact. Dora indirectly contributed to a devastating wildfire and that will truly scar Hawaiians for a long time.

Plus, Dora is also a retired Atlantic name so the US to have two Dora storms cause disasters, despite being 59 years apart, likely didn't help either.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Breaking news= Dora / Otis retired

#199 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:05 pm

zzzh wrote:No storm retired from the Atlantic.


IMO, the right decision. There were no really devastating Atlantic storms (for anyone) in 2023. It was the year the EPAC really took the spotlight away.
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Re: 2023 Cyclone Retirement (Poll Included at Top) Dora / Otis retired

#200 Postby cycloneye » Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:02 pm

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