2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña watch in effect

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: Breaking news: Up to 83% Neutral April thru June / Up to 62% La Niña June thru August

#181 Postby cycloneye » Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:07 am

A transition from El Niño to ENSO-neutral is likely by April-June 2024 (83% chance), with the odds of La Niña developing by June-August 2024 (62% chance).

During February 2024, sea surface temperature (SST) anomalies continued to weaken across most of the equatorial Pacific Ocean. In the last week, below-average SSTs emerged in a small region of the eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean (~100°W; [Fig. 1]). The weekly Niño indices weakened but remained positive, with the latest value in Niño-3.4 standing at 1.4°C [Fig. 2]. Area-averaged subsurface temperature anomalies were slightly negative [Fig. 3], reflecting the consequences of an upwelling Kelvin wave and associated below-average temperatures across the equatorial Pacific Ocean [Fig. 4]. Low-level winds were near average over most of the equatorial Pacific, while upper-level wind anomalies were easterly over the east-central Pacific. Convection was enhanced near the Date Line and was suppressed near Indonesia [Fig. 5]. Collectively, the coupled ocean-atmosphere system reflected a weakening El Niño.

The most recent IRI plume indicates a transition to ENSO-neutral during spring 2024, with La Niña potentially developing during summer 2024 [Fig. 6]. While different types of models suggest La Niña will develop, the forecast team favors the dynamical model guidance, which is slightly more accurate for forecasts made during this time of year. Even though forecasts made through the spring season tend to be less reliable, there is a historical tendency for La Niña to follow strong El Niño events. In summary, a transition from El Niño to ENSO-neutral is likely by April-June 2024 (83% chance), with the odds of La Niña developing by June-August 2024 (62% chance; [Fig. 7]).


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https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... disc.shtml
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates:Up to 83% Neutral April thru June / Up to 62% La Niña June thru August / La Niña Watch in effect

#182 Postby cycloneye » Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:16 am

From the ENSO Blog.

There’s a 62% chance that La Niña will arrive by June–August, but there’s also about a 1-in-3 chance it will develop even earlier, by May­–July. La Niña following close on the heels of a strong El Niño is fairly common, occurring after 5 of the 8 strong El Niño events.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/b ... ard-season
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#183 Postby cycloneye » Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:15 pm

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#184 Postby cycloneye » Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:23 am

I think is time to say bye to El Niño. There will be some warming in the next few days, but after that, the nail in the coggin comes. This 2024 transition is going fast.

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#185 Postby cycloneye » Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:58 am

CPC weekly update of 3/18/23: The days of El Niño are numbered.

The latest weekly
SST departures are:
Niño 4= +0.8ºC
Niño 3.4= +1.1ºC
Niño 3= +0.9ºC
Niño 1+2= +0.4ºC


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https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... ts-web.pdf
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#186 Postby Teban54 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:46 am

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#187 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:00 pm

Should be interesting to see how strong this Niña will get. Majority of the guidance is suggesting we'll fall to at least the higher (or technically lower?) end of moderate territory, and a few (CFS, CanSIPS, UKMET) are saying we may legitimately reach the strong threshold by autumn (-1.5C and below). For reference, the triple dip we recently saw from 2020-23 peaked at -1.3C in OND 2020 per ONI. Given how surprisingly expeditious the process has been up to this point, I honestly wouldn't disregard such a scenario.
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#188 Postby Ntxw » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:17 pm

DorkyMcDorkface wrote:Should be interesting to see how strong this Niña will get. Majority of the guidance is suggesting we'll fall to at least the higher (or technically lower?) end of moderate territory, and a few (CFS, CanSIPS, UKMET) are saying we may legitimately reach the strong threshold by autumn (-1.5C and below). For reference, the triple dip we recently saw from 2020-23 peaked at -1.3C in OND 2020 per ONI. Given how surprisingly expeditious the process has been up to this point, I honestly wouldn't disregard such a scenario.


One cause for pause is since 2020 the oceanic SSTA hasn't been matching some of these model depictions. 2021 and 2022 were showing some potent Ninas but was weak-mod. I think the overall global warmth is toying with anomaly values. Those seasons the atmosphere was more potent Nina responses than the actual SSTA. Might happen again. Once we get the new 30 year base, going back the Ninas may get a boost in ONI than operationally once the the base climo is increased.

This occured just this past year when the warm mid and high latitude SSTA interfered with Nino.
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#189 Postby Kingarabian » Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:44 pm

cycloneye wrote:I think is time to say bye to El Niño. There will be some warming in the next few days, but after that, the nail in the coggin comes. This 2024 transition is going fast.

https://i.imgur.com/iZe15AI.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/aiZMIgB.jpeg

I still don't see significant easterly anomalies in the EPAC to quickly drop Nino 3.4 into negative territory quickly. Even when anomalies seem to be erupting off of SA, the actual surface anomalies can take a while to reflect. We will see a Modoki El Nino look for the next 1-2 months at least.
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#190 Postby Teban54 » Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:30 am

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#191 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:42 am

Ntxw wrote:
DorkyMcDorkface wrote:Should be interesting to see how strong this Niña will get. Majority of the guidance is suggesting we'll fall to at least the higher (or technically lower?) end of moderate territory, and a few (CFS, CanSIPS, UKMET) are saying we may legitimately reach the strong threshold by autumn (-1.5C and below). For reference, the triple dip we recently saw from 2020-23 peaked at -1.3C in OND 2020 per ONI. Given how surprisingly expeditious the process has been up to this point, I honestly wouldn't disregard such a scenario.


One cause for pause is since 2020 the oceanic SSTA hasn't been matching some of these model depictions. 2021 and 2022 were showing some potent Ninas but was weak-mod. I think the overall global warmth is toying with anomaly values. Those seasons the atmosphere was more potent Nina responses than the actual SSTA. Might happen again. Once we get the new 30 year base, going back the Ninas may get a boost in ONI than operationally once the the base climo is increased.

This occured just this past year when the warm mid and high latitude SSTA interfered with Nino.

None of the guidance at this lead time throughout the 2020-23 event showed anything nearly as strong as what they're showing right now though.
Expanding on the post above, here are some plumes from the three Marches of the triple-dip:

2020
Image
Image
Image
Image

2021
Image
Image
Image
Image

2022
Image
Image
Image
Image

So for March in each of these years it actually ended up being the opposite case in that models underestimated the length/persistence and magnitude of the Niña (Euro was really bad in particular for March 2022), although on that note I will say the possibility of the guidance for this year being off in terms of the Niña ultimately ending up weaker could very well happen, as is usual for pre-SPB uncertainty. I do think that the rapid turn of events in the subsurface lends credence to the idea of something stronger, though.
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#192 Postby Ntxw » Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:47 pm

DorkyMcDorkface wrote:
Ntxw wrote:
DorkyMcDorkface wrote:Should be interesting to see how strong this Niña will get. Majority of the guidance is suggesting we'll fall to at least the higher (or technically lower?) end of moderate territory, and a few (CFS, CanSIPS, UKMET) are saying we may legitimately reach the strong threshold by autumn (-1.5C and below). For reference, the triple dip we recently saw from 2020-23 peaked at -1.3C in OND 2020 per ONI. Given how surprisingly expeditious the process has been up to this point, I honestly wouldn't disregard such a scenario.


One cause for pause is since 2020 the oceanic SSTA hasn't been matching some of these model depictions. 2021 and 2022 were showing some potent Ninas but was weak-mod. I think the overall global warmth is toying with anomaly values. Those seasons the atmosphere was more potent Nina responses than the actual SSTA. Might happen again. Once we get the new 30 year base, going back the Ninas may get a boost in ONI than operationally once the the base climo is increased.

This occured just this past year when the warm mid and high latitude SSTA interfered with Nino.

None of the guidance at this lead time throughout the 2020-23 event showed anything nearly as strong as what they're showing right now though.
Expanding on the post above, here are some plumes from the three Marches of the triple-dip:

2020
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/NMME/archive/2020030800/current/images/nino34.rescaling.ENSMEAN.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/streaming/20240318-1720/be/ps2png-worker-commands-68645dfb-qbxcv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-JbOPim.png
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/images/elnino/20200301/nino34_anom_20200301.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/content/20240319151602-6be37e34d1b1017e778b3a64c8e88ebfaf7833a4.png

2021
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/NMME/archive/2021030800/current/images/nino34.rescaling.ENSMEAN.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/streaming/20240318-2020/50/ps2png-worker-commands-68645dfb-lbkcc-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-TbUO7m.png
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/images/elnino/20210301/nino34_anom_20210301.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/content/20240319162715-e02abf14fdf4d91e729fa2beceb2f9323abdb9a8.png

2022
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/NMME/archive/2022030800/current/images/nino34.rescaling.ENSMEAN.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/streaming/20240319-1420/d2/ps2png-worker-commands-68645dfb-lbkcc-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-OHiigQ.png
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/images/elnino/20220301/nino34_anom_20220301.png
https://charts.ecmwf.int/content/20240319152620-e423e7d0e88c7e780597022265cac7a46a256a07.png

So for March in each of these years it actually ended up being the opposite case in that models underestimated the length/persistence and magnitude of the Niña (Euro was really bad in particular for March 2022), although on that note I will say the possibility of the guidance for this year being off in terms of the Niña ultimately ending up weaker could very well happen, as is usual for pre-SPB uncertainty. I do think that the rapid turn of events in the subsurface lends credence to the idea of something stronger, though.


Fair points, we're not in disagreement this could be a potent Nina. My point was the base state is warmer so the anomalies if they run warmer, is because of that. The recent El Nino was +0.3- +0.5 warmer than the RONI which meant it got a boost from what it really was, a moderate El Nino because the ocean was already warmer. The same thing might happen to the Nina, it might not cool to extreme levels because the base state could be warmer, but in reality the atmosphere is a potent Nina. Wonder if we see a reverse effect where ONI is running less than the RONI.
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#193 Postby cycloneye » Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:14 pm

We can say with very good certainty that La Niña will be present in the equatorial Pacific for the months of June or July. What remains to be seen is how strong it will be, since the models are divided as to how intense it will be. This is the update of the March models.

https://iri.columbia.edu/our-expertise/ ... -sst_table
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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#194 Postby cycloneye » Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:38 pm

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#195 Postby cycloneye » Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:18 pm

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#196 Postby cycloneye » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:05 am

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#197 Postby weeniepatrol » Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:47 pm

The Girl has arrived.

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#198 Postby cycloneye » Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:25 pm

Bye.

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#199 Postby cycloneye » Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:52 pm

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Re: 2024 ENSO Updates: La Niña Watch in effect

#200 Postby cycloneye » Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:10 am

CPC weekly update has niño 3.4 at +1.3C and niño 1+2 is down to negative at -0.4C. Confirms that the days of El Niño are numbered.

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https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... ts-web.pdf
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