I am in utter disbelief and embarrassed.

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wxcrazytwo

I am in utter disbelief and embarrassed.

#1 Postby wxcrazytwo » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:07 am

http://www.foxnews.com/

I cannot say anymore... than what the article states..
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#2 Postby TexasStooge » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:13 am

Same here.

Thie country's trying to help out, but police and national guards had to stop aid to New Orleans to take down looters, rapists, shooters, and other criminal behavior, which is NON-STOP!!!
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#3 Postby FlSteel » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:20 am

I have never really been a person who believed in martial law, but it's time to bring in the big guns and get this situation under control. I am quickly beginning to believe that anything short of a total military operation will fail miserably. Obviously this is a situation that the local and state level government was never prepared to handle. I don't want to lay blame on any one person for why this has turned into such a debacle because there are too many reasons to list why this has gotten to the state it is in. Unfortunatly I do believe that this is going to get alot worse before it gets any better. :(
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#4 Postby fci » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:23 am

FlSteel wrote:I have never really been a person who believed in martial law, but it's time to bring in the big guns and get this situation under control. I am quickly beginning to believe that anything short of a total military operation will fail miserably. Obviously this is a situation that the local and state level government was never prepared to handle. I don't want to lay blame on any one person for why this has turned into such a debacle because there are too many reasons to list why this has gotten to the state it is in. Unfortunatly I do believe that this is going to get alot worse before it gets any better. :(


I agree with your assessment to bring in the big guns.

I am a little reluctant to blast the State and Local officials though.
This situation has escalated well beyond anyone's imagination and I don't think anyone, in any state; could have been ready for what has happened here.

In my opinion, it is well beyond the scope that any plan could have been readied for.
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#5 Postby FernandinaBchFL » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:42 am

I fully agree with bringing in the "troops" We obviously do not have enough manpower in place to cover the estimated 90,000 square miles of affected area (as reported by Fox News this morning). It's a huge task especially with very few passable roads.
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#6 Postby Trader Ron » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:53 am

IF it's true that 60% of the N.O. police have quit, that hasn't helped.
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#7 Postby schmita » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:26 am

FlSteel wrote:I have never really been a person who believed in martial law, but it's time to bring in the big guns and get this situation under control. I am quickly beginning to believe that anything short of a total military operation will fail miserably. Obviously this is a situation that the local and state level government was never prepared to handle. I don't want to lay blame on any one person for why this has turned into such a debacle because there are too many reasons to list why this has gotten to the state it is in. Unfortunatly I do believe that this is going to get alot worse before it gets any better. :(


I agree with you also. So where is Gov. Blanco? She has to ask the President to declare Martial Law. Where is she?

From the N Y Times:
The Pentagon is sending thousands of active-duty sailors and soldiers, including a fully staffed aircraft carrier, a hospital ship and some 3,000 Army troops for security and crowd control (even though federal law bars regular Army forces from domestic law enforcement, normally the province of the National Guard).
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#8 Postby beachbum_al » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:37 am

Why does the President have to wait for the governor to declare Martial Law? Can't he break the rules in this situation because something needs to be done. Innocent people are losing their lives because of a few thugs who don't have any compassion. (few was greatly underestimated) I am just heartbroken over what is going on over there. And it is the innocent who are paying the ultimate price not the ones who are shooting and causing a major disaster to more than a major disaster.
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#9 Postby schmita » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:42 am

It is Federal Law. A system of checks and balances. Do you want the Federal Government to have the right to bring in the Army whenever it want's to without accountability?
All she has to do is make a phone call. That's what I don't understand. She would have to give up her powers during the time.
Is that why she doesn't do it? Very self centered and not very reasonable considering what is happening on her watch.
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#10 Postby photoguy » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:54 am

How do you know for a fact that she did not make that call on Monday?

Not to mention, that is not necessarily cut and dried. But it sure does cloud up accountability nicely.
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#11 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:00 am

photoguy wrote:How do you know for a fact that she did not make that call on Monday?

Not to mention, that is not necessarily cut and dried. But it sure does cloud up accountability nicely.


If the call had been made you can be assured that the world would know it by now.
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#12 Postby ncbird » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:08 am

Why does the President have to wait for the governor to declare Martial Law? Can't he break the rules in this situation because something needs to be done.


NO NO NO... The President can not, nor do I want him to ever be able to just break the laws of our county. I know the situation is bad, and I cry, and I feel sick to my stomach as I watch what is happening. But no one is above the law... including the President.
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#13 Postby Florida_brit » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:29 am

The photos look like a scene from Iraq! Very shockign that it is happening in the USA!
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#14 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:35 am

We are witnessing in New Orleans what happens when people have lost everything and they are fighting for their own survival for a sip of water, a taste of food, a chance at medication. It is anarchy. It is a primitive society struggling for individual choice between life and death every second by tens of thousands of indivduals. Hence, we get a view of what occurs when something like this happens in the middle of an urban environment. It is an absolute United States catastrophe.
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#15 Postby FloridaHawk82 » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:17 pm

Sean in New Orleans wrote:We are witnessing in New Orleans what happens when people have lost everything and they are fighting for their own survival for a sip of water, a taste of food, a chance at medication. It is anarchy. It is a primitive society struggling for individual choice between life and death every second by tens of thousands of indivduals. Hence, we get a view of what occurs when something like this happens in the middle of an urban environment. It is an absolute United States catastrophe.


Sean, you are very correct... people are dying, and I would do ANYTHING to save my children. One thing that really struck me after listening to Mayor Nagin's scorching and heartfelt radio interview is that he said that the well-known severe drug problem in NO is rearing it's ugly head. As he stated, junkies are roaming around now, some with guns, looking for any way to "take the edge off their jones', as he put it. So, most of the looters might be people trying to survive, but the civil unrest is mostly due to the unfortunate social state that most of our major cities are in.
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#16 Postby themusk » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:05 pm

schmita wrote:
FlSteel wrote:I have never really been a person who believed in martial law, but it's time to bring in the big guns and get this situation under control. I am quickly beginning to believe that anything short of a total military operation will fail miserably. Obviously this is a situation that the local and state level government was never prepared to handle. I don't want to lay blame on any one person for why this has turned into such a debacle because there are too many reasons to list why this has gotten to the state it is in. Unfortunatly I do believe that this is going to get alot worse before it gets any better. :(


I agree with you also. So where is Gov. Blanco? She has to ask the President to declare Martial Law. Where is she?

From the N Y Times:
The Pentagon is sending thousands of active-duty sailors and soldiers, including a fully staffed aircraft carrier, a hospital ship and some 3,000 Army troops for security and crowd control (even though federal law bars regular Army forces from domestic law enforcement, normally the province of the National Guard).


There are two things needed here. They are mutually dependent -- one without the other would only make things worse. One is the enforcement of order, the other is the provision of relief. Even if the governor doesn't essentially "deputize" the regular army, it is possible for the regular army to take over the relief function (with, naturally, instructions to defend themselves and their supplies against attackers), and set the Guard to the business of actually taking custody of criminals.
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#17 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:25 pm

It's difficult to establish order in 10 feet of water while people are up on roofs, in boats, in trees, on interstates, firing weapons out of desperation. These are questions that The National Guard and the United States, as a whole, isn't accustomed to answering when you have tens of thousands dying of starvation and thirst.
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#18 Postby cristy » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:57 pm

FloridaHawk82 wrote:
Sean in New Orleans wrote:We are witnessing in New Orleans what happens when people have lost everything and they are fighting for their own survival for a sip of water, a taste of food, a chance at medication. It is anarchy. It is a primitive society struggling for individual choice between life and death every second by tens of thousands of indivduals. Hence, we get a view of what occurs when something like this happens in the middle of an urban environment. It is an absolute United States catastrophe.


Sean, you are very correct... people are dying, and I would do ANYTHING to save my children. One thing that really struck me after listening to Mayor Nagin's scorching and heartfelt radio interview is that he said that the well-known severe drug problem in NO is rearing it's ugly head. As he stated, junkies are roaming around now, some with guns, looking for any way to "take the edge off their jones', as he put it. So, most of the looters might be people trying to survive, but the civil unrest is mostly due to the unfortunate social state that most of our major cities are in.


Yes, people are dying and yes, I would do anything to save my life and my family, but that doesn't justify the rapes, killings, looting for jewelry, clothes, TV's, microwaves, etc. I can see people stealing food & water for survival. I was a victim of hurricane Andrew and I know that feeling all too well. We were without power for 3 mos., NO water for over one week, lost everything and did not have insurance. Did not receive any help from FEMA only from the Red Cross that gave our family a dinette set and mattresses for our children. But we acted civilized, and dignified we are not barbarics. Yes there was some looting, but not to the extreme like in NO. Also, with that said, it took a very long time for us to receive help also, but again, we managed and didn't kill people while surviving. On the contrary everyone was out helping everyone else. We all became a big family. So it really bothers me when they scream the race card because we too faced the same problem and were neglected by everyone for days, but we didn't blame anyone for what mother nature had done to us, instead we were very grateful to everyone that helped and extremely happy to have survived. We also didn't hear our Mayor disrespecting the President of this Great Country.
Cristy
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