National Hurricane Director had to call Nagin at home Saturd

[aumoore]

OK now people let's think about this for a minute.

You can all try and blame Nagin, BUT.... had this storm missed New Orleans or had a minimal effect on New Orleans... people would be blaming Nagin for ordering a mandatory evacuation.

Either way... the man loses. He did order a mandatory evacuation on Sunday... it was on the news.

He ordered a VOLUNTARY evacuation on Saturday and pleaded with people to get out. He said, "IF I COULD, I WOULD ORDER A MANDATORY EVACUATION."

Blame the stupid laws we have. He did tell people to get the hell out 48 hours before this storm hit. People we're going to stay.... its a fact. People tell me they'll stay in Vermillion Parish even if a Cat.5 is coming. People don't get it.

100,000 people stayed in New Orleans, but 900,000 got out right???

What happened AFTER the storm hit was not Nagins fault. He requested help and they said it was coming. It was coming Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.... and then after his speech on the radio they came Friday... still haven't gotten people out and it's Saturday... don't expect them all out even on Sunday.

He's just the mayor. The governor and congressmen of Louisiana didn't do enough AFTER the storm hit. Plain and simple.

The main problem with him worring about getting blamed for ordering an evacuation and the storm missing NO is he was more worried about being wrong than the lives of his people. If I was mayor I would have ordered the evacuation, loaded every bus I could find with the poor and moved them to higher ground. The Government of NO should be blamed for the deaths when the storm hit not the Feds. They had no plan and were worried about getting sued instead of doing the right thing.

As for this incompetant Mayor blaming Bush I feel he did it to direct the media away form looking at his mistakes. What do they call it "spin doctoring"?

Right now all that is water under the bridge (no pun intended) because we cannot change the past. We can only learn from our mistakes and plan for the future.

[Wacahootaman]

This is a minor scandal compare with all those crowds baking in the heat with NO drinking water for days. They were easilly accessible on the elevated highway and none of the govt trucks driving by even brought them water.

Why? Was there no portable drinking water available?
If there was water available for these people and it was never delivered, that is even worse.

If no water was available, why not? The city of NOrleans had gotten hundreds of millions of dollars from the feds after 9-11 for disaster preparation and training. All they would have to do was to buy some "buffalo' water trailers and have em ready before the storm.

And what about the 200 school busses that remained idle in the parking lot and were flooded out? They could have been used as for evacuations of those who had no cars and could have come back later after the storm to pick up others?

These IMO are bigger scandals that his reluctance to order manditory evacuations.

[soonertwister]

I exactly agree, wxman57 I believe that beyond the obvious built-in apathy of NOLA residents toward the obvious possibility of a catatrophic hurricane event, his actions and the actions of the governor were the two largest contributing factors in making this disaster worse than it had to be.

But the facts are not all in, so I'll wait until we get a detailed analysis before I make my final conclusions. But there's not doubt that the mayor and governor are on very shaky ground right now.

[themusk]

Secondly, the govenor is definitly NOT in the clear. Again, I think we may be looking at another person who took on a job and the responsibility, without the experience that was required for it. The KNOWLEDGE, not the ability. The positions are not the kind where one can OJT. Peoples lives and well being are at stake. If the Govenor is the person who is to give Nagin "permission" then she failed by not demanding an evacuation as well.

Almost all elected officials do "OJT" when it comes to emergency management, as well as a whole lot of other specialized areas. Their job is to appoint good advisors who do have knowledge and experience in the field, and to listen to their advisors. Therein lies another mystery -- what were these people advised to do, by whom, and did they listen to the advice they were given?

When you think about it, the bad decision that led to this crisis may even have its roots in a decision made several years ago by someone we're not yet aware did anything important, or the hiring of someone whose name we don't yet know, or the decision of some legislative body.

Unraveling the threads isn't an exercise in blame. We're all capable of stunningly bad decisions, after all (I can think of one of the stunningly bad decisions I've made in my life by name though mercifully that bad decision never led to the deaths of thousands). What's important is identifying the screwup(s), repairing them and the policies that contributed to them, and learning what to watch for/what not to do in the future.

[MBismyPlayground]

Secondly, the govenor is definitly NOT in the clear. Again, I think we may be looking at another person who took on a job and the responsibility, without the experience that was required for it. The KNOWLEDGE, not the ability. The positions are not the kind where one can OJT. Peoples lives and well being are at stake. If the Govenor is the person who is to give Nagin "permission" then she failed by not demanding an evacuation as well.

Almost all elected officials do "OJT" when it comes to emergency management, as well as a whole lot of other specialized areas. Their job is to appoint good advisors who do have knowledge and experience in the field, and to listen to their advisors. Therein lies another mystery -- what were these people advised to do, by whom, and did they listen to the advice they were given?

When you think about it, the bad decision that led to this crisis may even have its roots in a decision made several years ago by someone we're not yet aware did anything important, or the hiring of someone whose name we don't yet know, or the decision of some legislative body.

Unraveling the threads isn't an exercise in blame. We're all capable of stunningly bad decisions, after all (I can think of one of the stunningly bad decisions I've made in my life by name though mercifully that bad decision never led to the deaths of thousands). What's important is identifying the screwup(s), repairing them and the policies that contributed to them, and learning what to watch for/what not to do in the future.

Well. don't know about you, but I WANT to know. I want to see doc.s on it all.

[aumoore]

Emergency Management, Fiscal responsibility, urban planning etc. Teach them the basics so they are not completely in the dark. They could be flown up to say Washington DC and get trained by FEMA, Homeland security etc officials in a 30 day crash course. At least the Mayors and Governors should be given basic training on these important subjects.

[gratefulnole]

Almost all elected officials do "OJT" when it comes to emergency management, as well as a whole lot of other specialized areas. Their job is to appoint good advisors who do have knowledge and experience in the field, and to listen to their advisors. Therein lies another mystery -- what were these people advised to do, by whom, and did they listen to the advice they were given?

Unforunately those advisors are probably political appointees doing "OJT" also.
At least today she hired the former director of FEMA to help her.

[Steve Cosby]

At least today she hired the former director of FEMA to help her.

Witt is an Arkansan but, more importantly, a Friend of Bill (Clinton).

He has a huge ego. There's going to be people saying "Did things just get better... or worst?"

But, then again, he does have better training from the experience.

[THead]

Fwiw, I also thought the mandatory order came WAY too late, and posted so at the time, but......when did the 2/3's of the NO police force desert? Did they have the manpower to evac the city properly at the time?

[shaner]

Crazycajuncane...


Are there laws that prevented him from issuing a mandatory on Saturday? I hadn't heard that.

No, but it was reported that if a mandatory evac order was issued on Saturday, and Katrina missed, it would open up the city of New Orleans to lawsuits from affected businesses. Nagin did what he could do under the circumstances, and that was plead and strongly suggest leaving town.

Now, could he have done more? Yes, I believe so. I believe at the very least on Saturday or Sunday, Nagin should have mobilised the city's transit fleet to go around and pick up poor people who couldn't have gotten out of town on their own. Instead, that whole fleet of busses (school and NORTA) are sitting under 6ft of water without ever moving anybody.

[ohiostorm]

"when they have few safe hurricane shelters"

HELLO!?!?!?! This just makes me sick.

[JQ Public]

Alot of people put themselves in this situation by not leaving. Its a blame fest around here. Everyone is to blame...isn't that the point? No one did anything right! And that is why this is a "disaster". It wouldn't be a disaster unless many things come together to make it so.

[greeng13]

Crazycajuncane...


Are there laws that prevented him from issuing a mandatory on Saturday? I hadn't heard that.

No, but it was reported that if a mandatory evac order was issued on Saturday, and Katrina missed, it would open up the city of New Orleans to lawsuits from affected businesses. Nagin did what he could do under the circumstances, and that was plead and strongly suggest leaving town.

Now, could he have done more? Yes, I believe so. I believe at the very least on Saturday or Sunday, Nagin should have mobilised the city's transit fleet to go around and pick up poor people who couldn't have gotten out of town on their own. Instead, that whole fleet of busses (school and NORTA) are sitting under 6ft of water without ever moving anybody.

then why even have an evac plan that will take longer than 24 hours!?!?!?

[jasons2k]

Also, keep in mind the National Hurricane Center issued a Hurricane Watch last Sat. morning at 10AM for Lousiana ONLY. I believe that watch was issued to signal the need for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, was it not? Yet, no action was taken. I remember I wondered why on earth they issued a special watch for them when no mandatory evacuation order was given.
I was in New Orleans 3 days before Hurricane Dennis hit Florida and at that time it appeared the storm was aiming for New Orleans. Even then they were discussing the evacuation plan on TV stations and that it would take 3 days to evacuate New Orleans. How did Mayor Nagin think they could evacuate New Orleans in less than a day when he finally issued the mandatory evacuation order on Sunday?

Yes it was. He missed the boat IMO.

[oneness]

Hindsight is terrific, the world would be perfect, if we only had as much fore-thought as copious hindsight.

Keep in mind that every event is unique and no one had been through this before so it is hardly surprising that people did not fully understand the implications of certain events.

The 17th st canal is a classic example.

Also, for the couple of days prior to landfall the eye was projected to make landfall some time around or soon after noon on Monday and people repeatedly said it was a "slow moving system".

Instead, the eye crossed the coast at 5 AM Monday and NO itself was getting heavy weather from about 2 AM, because the storm accelerated its forward speed dramatically.

And were the interstates still choked with traffic at 6 AM?

No, because almost all people who intended to evacuate had done so already, and there was only of dribble of vehicles on the highways.

Nagin could have been more strident in his calls for evacuation 10-12 hours earlier, and he would have been right to do so, but I'm not sure a 100,000 or even 10,000 more people would have evacuated from NO if he had. Most people who stayed seemed to have already made up their mind, for what ever reasons, that they would stay, no matter what the forecast, warnings or mandatory evacuation declaration, nor threats of arrest.

Remember the ignorant fools on the houseboats and yachts? They also made a bad-call, and are almost certainly dead now because of it.

You can warn the population until you are blue in the face and there were still going to be many thousands of extremely vulnerable people in a delusional or denial state, who will discount the danger until it is far too late.

Remember the poor guy who could not hold on to his wife and his wife said to take care of the kids? I saw an interview with his next door neighbour and that neighbour said that he (not the guy who lost his wife) had gone through Camile in 1969! ... so … WTF was he still doing in east NO on Monday morning with a 25 foot storm surge and 145 mph sustained, forecast all that day?

Even people who should and do know much better, ignored all warnings and civil evacuation orders, so you can’t play such simplistic “pin-the-blame-here”, games.

[Downdraft]

I have no doubts that a lot of things are going to be examined and probably laws changed when this is all over. I can see congressional hearings on t.v. lasting into next hurricane season for sure. What did the Mayor know and when did he know it? Folks, fact of the matter is we are just at the very BEGINNING of dealing with the single greatest natural/manmade disaster in U.S. history. I say natural/manmade because the hurricane was natural the levees and hazardous materials are manmade problems. Let's get through this before we figure out who we want to hang for it.