EPAC: BONNIE - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#301 Postby TheProfessor » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:47 am

Bout to fly out to Cabo this morning for vacation, but I'll give a short explanation what's going on with this storm.


It's very likely we have a developing llc under the convection probably somewhere around 12.5N and 66W. This is roughly 75 miles north of the current fix by NHC. This will have a significant impact on the track of the storm. 75 miles may not seem like much, but this is where the butterfly effecting comes in. To put it simply, a small change in the near term can lead drastic changes in the long term. A few good examples of this was the GFS being too far east in the short term with the tropical wave that became Agatha and Alex and thus was blowing up the storm in the Gulf. Another one was hurricane Nicholas when an old vort got spit out and moved southward and erroneously got fixed by NHC and sent the models east towards southeast Louisiana. In reality the center was further north and the storm made it's first landfall along the upper Texas coast. Finally, the probably most drastic example was Dorian's reformation to the north that changed the path from a sure death over Hispaniola to a track north of the Greater Antilles. As of now, short term steering will be dictated by old circulation to the south acting as a pseudo gyre. That circulation should die over land over the next day or two. From there the rest depends on the strength of the storm. The strong PTC 2 gets, the more it will feel the weakness. A further north PTC 2 will have more opportunity to get stronger. If that occurs this will lead to more corrections northward over time. Anyone that's confident in the current forecast shouldn't be. Model consensus is useless if it's consistently receiving bad data. Until a dominant llc has developed and been fixed and fed for at least 2 to 3 model cycles, everything is on the table now. That includes places as far east as Jamaica and western Cuba.

What to watch going forward is how satellite behaves. As of now I'm looking for what I like to call a storm awakening it's Sharingan for you Naruto fans out there. In this case a tomoe in the Sharingan is a rotating hot tower in a tropical cyclone. In this case I'm looking for a 2 tomoe awakening as 2 rotating hot towers will clue me in that this storm is approaching hurricane status. Once that northern llc takes over, I don't think it will take long as long as convection persists.

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#302 Postby Kingarabian » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:28 am

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#303 Postby wxman57 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:40 am

There a light easterly winds all along the coast south of the convection along 66W. No LLC. This is not another Harvey. No Gulf threat, except for the Gulf of Tehuantepec.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#304 Postby Chemmers » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:08 am

It looks like it is about 75 to 100 miles far north then the models was predicting, will be very interesting where this might end up
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#305 Postby aspen » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:10 am

When is recon expected to go out again? This looks really good now and might finally be TS Bonnie.

The 5am NHC track now shows PTC2/Bonnie surviving its crossover into the EPac and intensifying, and while it only shows a 60 kt peak in the WCar, there’s still a chance it becomes a hurricane. This really is looking like a Cesar ‘96 repeat.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#306 Postby kevin » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:19 am

PTC2 this morning:

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#307 Postby wxman57 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:26 am

aspen wrote:When is recon expected to go out again? This looks really good now and might finally be TS Bonnie.

The 5am NHC track now shows PTC2/Bonnie surviving its crossover into the EPac and intensifying, and while it only shows a 60 kt peak in the WCar, there’s still a chance it becomes a hurricane. This really is looking like a Cesar ‘96 repeat.


I see that the POD indicates a flight for 1530Z, probably leaving from St. Croix. I don't think that the plane will be able to fly into Venezuelan air space, though. Might be able to sample winds on the north side of the wave. I doubt that there are any 35kt winds at the surface. Might become a TS in about 36 hours when it moves north of Colombia.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#308 Postby InfernoFlameCat » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:42 am

No way it closes a circulation that close to land. Give it a day and I think it will finally close off. Once it does, it may RI very quickly.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#309 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:44 am

InfernoFlameCat wrote:No way it closes a circulation that close to land. Give it a day and I think it will finally close off. Once it does, it may RI very quickly.


I have seen TC's form a closed circulation over land more times than I can count.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#310 Postby NDG » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:46 am

As good as it has ever looked so far, hard to tell but there might be a weak closed surface circulation NE of Caracas, near 11N 66W.
Had this had been at least an El Nino year 94L would had been shredded to pieces this morning.

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#311 Postby InfernoFlameCat » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:27 am

Hypercane_Kyle wrote:
InfernoFlameCat wrote:No way it closes a circulation that close to land. Give it a day and I think it will finally close off. Once it does, it may RI very quickly.


I have seen TC's form a closed circulation over land more times than I can count.

Over South America?? Without trades to help it? Without the natural effect of the earths spin at such a low latitude? It would be very difficult for PTC2 to accomplish that.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#312 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:39 am

InfernoFlameCat wrote:
Hypercane_Kyle wrote:
InfernoFlameCat wrote:No way it closes a circulation that close to land. Give it a day and I think it will finally close off. Once it does, it may RI very quickly.


I have seen TC's form a closed circulation over land more times than I can count.

Over South America?? Without trades to help it? Without the natural effect of the earths spin at such a low latitude? It would be very difficult for PTC2 to accomplish that.


Didn't say it would be easy, but we've seen storms somehow overcome such barriers and surpass them.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#313 Postby WiscoWx02 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:07 am

Am seriously beginning to doubt this develops in the Atlantic. Best bet this tracks into the eastern Pacific and develops there.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#314 Postby underthwx » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:16 am

PTC2 doing the latitude limbo with the current forecast track. How low can you go. On satellite, it looks a bit higher in latitude. I assume it will eventually cross into the Epac, and may be renamed?
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#315 Postby aspen » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:22 am

underthwx wrote:PTC2 doing the latitude limbo with the current forecast track. How low can you go. On satellite, it looks a bit higher in latitude. I assume it will eventually cross into the Epac, and may be renamed?

If it makes it into the EPac intact and formed before then, it would keep the name Bonnie, like like Otto remained Otto when it crossed over in 2016.

PTC2 is already decently close to being a TC, and it’ll have 36-42 hours over the SW Caribbean before landfall. That should be long enough for it to become at least a moderate TS, raising its chances of surviving the crossover and maybe becoming an even stronger storm in the EPac.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#316 Postby underthwx » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:27 am

aspen wrote:
underthwx wrote:PTC2 doing the latitude limbo with the current forecast track. How low can you go. On satellite, it looks a bit higher in latitude. I assume it will eventually cross into the Epac, and may be renamed?

If it makes it into the EPac intact and formed before then, it would keep the name Bonnie, like like Otto remained Otto when it crossed over in 2016.

PTC2 is already decently close to being a TC, and it’ll have 36-42 hours over the SW Caribbean before landfall. That should be long enough for it to become at least a moderate TS, raising its chances of surviving the crossover and maybe becoming an even stronger storm in the EPac.

Thanks for your reply. What exactly is keeping the system so low in latitude?
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#317 Postby cycloneye » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:31 am

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#318 Postby NDG » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 am

Definitely a surface closed circulation now present NNE of Caracas.

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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#319 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 am

NDG wrote:Definitely a surface closed circulation now present NNE of Caracas.

https://i.imgur.com/3oOmhJP.gif


That circulation looks like it is rotating up into the strongest convection. A center could be NW of it.
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Re: ATL: TWO - Potential Tropical Cyclone - Discussion

#320 Postby cycloneye » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 am

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