For the good of the order.

[coriolis]

You may have noticed that the staff of S2k has recently allowed several topics that deal with current, serious national and international subjects. This includes the Alaska oil pipeline, Israel vs. Hezbollah, The airline terrorist situation, and more to come, I'm sure. These topics have had mixed success insofar as maintaining a civil discussion.

I'm sure that you've heard that S2k used to have a political forum that was discontinued because it became problematic. The above-referenced topics have frequently teetered on the edge of the abyss.

Our intent in allowing these threads is primarily to allow the sharing of timely information and to provide a place for our thoughts. The board can accommodate all opinions as long as they are composed within the limits of the rules.

If your point is factual, well thought out, and well written, it should stand on it's own merits. If your point is factual, well thought out, and well written, why would someone's disagreement detract from it?

I see that some of us have strong opinions and seem intent on winning an argument rather than just giving our thoughts or exchanging ideas. Sometimes it seems that people are not interested in learning anything. Sometimes I think that people just argue for amusement.

For those who have the strong opinions you can state it. But if someone disagrees with you with an equally strong opinion, do you really think that you're going to change their mind? You can go on and on, restating, repeating, rehashing, and even recriminating, but it accomplishes nothing. No one changes their mind. So what's the point?

The board has rules about flaming and political posts, among others. Flaming is usually pretty easy to recognize. Political posts can often inhabit the gray zone. Some people are quite skillful about skirting the boundary. That runs counter to the spirit of the rules and shows disrespect.

Aside from flaming or being political, there is a category of offensiveness that I'll call being argumentative. Of course this is a subjective category, and is subject to interpretation. As such, it would be hard to put into a rule but it's the kind of thing that "you know it when you see it." I've noticed that many of the argumentative posts overuse the word "you." That word, or combinations like "you do," "you don't," and especially "you always" are red flags.

The staff discussed this. While some debate is good, it's bad when the debate degenerates into an argument that goes back and forth repeatedly with nobody budging and people just keep restating the same point. When it reaches that point it's time to stop. It doesn't profit anything when people start picking apart each others posts line by line, or when the whole debate hinges on the definition of a single word. That's a little arcane for this board. It would be good if people could make a point and shut up for a while. Maybe you'll inadvertently learn something. Whether you like it or not, no one knows it all. Maybe we should create another offense of being a know-it-all.

I think that I can speak for the entire staff in saying that we're tired of the arguments, and the endless back and forth on some points. There's lots of other message boards out there where you can argue to your heart's content. But not here.

The world is full of different people with different perspectives. It is possible to disagree with someone, yet still broaden your horizons by listening for a change. If you're convinced of your opinion, why should you feel threatened by an opposing viewpoint?

As you know, we employ a strategy of escalating sanctions for bad behavior. Being argumentative and being a know-it-all are sanctionable behaviors.

I'd like to encourage everyone to embrace your responsibility to keep this a friendly and enjoyable place.

[kevin]

That's cool.

[dizzyfish]

Well said!

[bfez1]

[Cookiely]

The staff discussed this. While some debate is good, it's bad when the debate degenerates into an argument that goes back and forth repeatedly with nobody budging and people just keep restating the same point. When it reaches that point it's time to stop. It doesn't profit anything when people start picking apart each others posts line by line, or when the whole debate hinges on the definition of a single word. That's a little arcane for this board. It would be good if people could make a point and shut up for a while. Maybe you'll inadvertently learn something. Whether you like it or not, no one knows it all. Maybe we should create another offense of being a know-it-all.

When adults start acting like children instead of adults, then the mods have to be good parents and punish them. I'm serious. Some of the arguments reminded me of children on the playground arguing not adults sharing view points.

[Stephanie]

Well said Cookiely - especially the last sentence.