AMERICA WILL NEVER SEEK A PERMISSION SLIP TO DEFEND......

[j]

if every gay person in this country was allowed to vote for Gay union or marriage it would pass.

With all due respect Jonathan, you are speaking from the heart here, not using your mind.

[southerngale]

Excellant line, one I will always remember.

Ever tried to think of some great quote that Clinton made???...besides "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky"

Anybody notice the total disrespect shown by none other than Ted Kennedy throughout the entire speech? Right behind him was Hillary with that grade school smirk all night.

Oh yeah, I noticed! Bush is stating FACTS and he's over there shaking his head. Somebody give him a reality pill!!

[j]

had you wanting to reach inside that tube and wring his neck I bet Kelly?

[GalvestonDuck]

Did anyone notice how many of the Democrats applauded when he said that parts of the Patriot Act were about to expire? But they cut him off and then he was allowed to finish by saying that it needed to be renewed and law enforcement needed it to protect us.

Mind if I point out that W said himself that "stable families are incredibly good for children." He also said:

Statistics tell us that children from two parent families are less
likely to end up in poverty, drop out of school, become addicted to
drugs, have a child out of wedlock, suffer abuse or become a violent
criminal and end up in prison. Building and preserving families are not
always possible, I recognize that. But they should always be our goal.

He didn't define a family as a mother, father, and child. He said "two parents." If someone is gay and the parent of a child, shouldn't they be allowed to provide a stable, two-parent home for that child? How can it be stable unless they are in a committed marriage? Committment is the key to stability.

[southerngale]

had you wanting to reach inside that tube and wring his neck I bet Kelly?

Exactly!!!! I actually had typed out that I'd love to smack that disrespectful face but wringing his neck sounds great too!

[southerngale]

Did anyone notice how many of the Democrats applauded when he said that parts of the Patriot Act were about to expire? But they cut him off and then he was allowed to finish by saying that it needed to be renewed and law enforcement needed it to protect us.

Yes, that was one of my favorite parts. hehe

After Bush said, "Key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year." the Democrats broke out in applause.
Anyway, so Bush ever so subtly cuts his eyes at them and gives them his next line: "The terrorist threat will not expire on that schedule."
I couldn't have asked for a more appropriate comeback...and they walked right into that one.

[j]

Ahhh yes...he is the Master of the facial expressions. I don't know how he keeps a straight face when he knows in the next breath he will have egg dripping from Kennedy's startled face.

[Rainband]

Yes Chad you nailed it. But as the president he must support all the people not just some of them..if every gay person in this country was allowed to vote for Gay union or marriage it would pass. This is a government for the people by the people....isn't it BTW I support the war on terror and the liberation of Iraq.

If every person in the US were to vote on the Gay Marriage issue it would be soundly defeated. This country was founded on the rule of the majority..... our politicians and our courts sometimes forget it. There's no doubt in my military mind that our country is in much better hands with President Bush than with any of the other presidential imposters...

There could be a compromise. I would even accept a union..my point is that The President by his comment "ban" is only paving the way for even less exceptance and more hatred of Gays.

[mf_dolphin]

I think a lot more people would support the idea of a gay legal union than a marriage. I am one of those people

[Rainband]

I think a lot more people would support the idea of a gay legal union than a marriage. I am one of those people

I agree. I just wanted some form of support from the President..any hint of support would have been enough. He after all sets the example. I just think..like I said above....People need to realize we are a BIG part of the population and no different other than who we are inside. After all we are all different in one way or another

[GalvestonDuck]

..any hint of support would have been enough.

I sort of thought what he said (as quoted in my post) offered some hint of support.

[Rainband]

..any hint of support would have been enough.

I sort of thought what he said (as quoted in my post) offered some hint of support.

I thought he meant man and women..it's vague but possible thats a hint

[Rainband]

if every gay person in this country was allowed to vote for Gay union or marriage it would pass.

With all due respect Jonathan, you are speaking from the heart here, not using your mind.

Yes J..I guess I (we) shouldn't expect to have rights as partners. After all we don't pay taxes vote or pay the bills of all the welfare mothers..who have kids just for a check increase And they say we'd be unfit to be parents I am not going to try to sway anyone or change anyones mind..thats using my mind. But my heart does and will always continue to tell you how I feel and what I think is right

[GalvestonDuck]

I don't think we'd be unfit as parents (generally speaking). I myself would refuse to be a parent, given my childhood history.

But I stand behind the whole stability issue. If the baby is the child of one of the two partners, that's one thing. He should be allowed to stay with the parent. If two partners are trying to adopt a baby who is unrelated to them, that's a different story. If the two (gay or straight) are not committed, where's the promise of stability? THAT'S why I think marriage, not just a civil union, is important.

Unless I'm not understanding the definition of "civil union." Are there vows? Is it before God and family? Or is it just a legal proceeding that ends with a piece of paper saying these two people are a "couple?"

And now, for a somewhat related question which I have tried to address privately to a couple of our Virginia members but been unsuccessful in getting an answer. Regardless of what your views are on the whole thing, surely someone here has heard something about this? There was a case a few years ago where a mom lost custody of her son to her mother (the boy's grandmother) because she became involved in a relationship with another woman. The boy's father who was divorced from the mother gave up custody to the mom when they filed their papers. He agreed during the mom/grandmother custody trial that the boy should stay with the mom. However, even after appeals, the grandmother won custody. I've studied the script and the movie based on the real-life case (UCLA screenwriting prof wrote it). But I've wondered about what's happened since then and looked for a follow-up. I can't find anything.

Anybody know?

[Rainband]

Yes Chad you nailed it. But as the president he must support all the people not just some of them..if every gay person in this country was allowed to vote for Gay union or marriage it would pass. This is a government for the people by the people....isn't it BTW I support the war on terror and the liberation of Iraq.

I should have said I support the President and his views on those issues. I just think the time has come for some change and thats a personal issue to me. To be honest..I will vote for Bush and hopefully in his second term he will stand up for some issues sensitive to me

[mf_dolphin]

I think President Bush was pretty clear that he defined marriage as the commited union between man and woman. His basis for that is tradition and his (and a great part of the US population's) belief that marriage is a religious convenant that binds a man and woman. The grey area is the legal side. Since a marriage is both a religious and legal bond the idea of a "civil union" would be to afford committed gay partners the same benefits (and tax burdens) of a married couple. Since you can't legislate religion, I think that's about as good as the gay community can hope for now....JMHO

[chadtm80]

Your in a commited relationship and you dont have to take it any further.... Shoot sounds like a pretty good plan to me.. lol j/k jenn