Prop. 54 in Calif. - what it really means

[j]

I find myself guilty this morning of not having paid close attention to everything that is going on in California. Mind you, I watch Fox News every night, watched the debate, know for sure who I would vote for if I was a Californian (Tom McClintock), but on the ballot is this Proposition 54 for which I am gulitly of not having given much thought to.

I take interest in what goes on in California, because once something happens in Ca, you can rest assured more states will follow.

Here is an article that made me think twice about it, and the consequences of making the gathering of racial demographic data illegal. Prior to reading this, I was of the opinion that race should not matter when gathering information. Now this issue is not to be confused with quotas, or affirmative action, which in my opinion result in reverse discrimination.

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Prop 54 will hide, not solve, race problems

Last week, we learned that black women in South Carolina are three times more likely to be victims of domestic violence than white women. We know the difference between black and white children's average scores on SATs and other standardized tests. We know that, on average, black men don't live as long as white men. We know blacks are disproportionately represented in the nation's prison population.

We know those things because people who gather statistics also gather demographic data on the people they study. They classify us by race, sex, age, income, level of education and any other classification that may be relevant to the issue at hand. If Ward Connerly has his way, the demographers will have to ignore race.

Connerly is pushing Proposition 54 in California, also known as the Racial Privacy Initiative. It would make it illegal to collect racial demographic data on everything from college applications to prison records. Proposition 54 is on the ballot next Tuesday, the day voters choose whether to replace Gov. Gray Davis.

Connerly is the University of California regent who in 1996 also led the push for Proposition 209, the successful campaign to ban racial preferences in California. Connerly is of mixed race and dislikes being classified himself. He says the goal is a state government that is free from race-conscious decision-making.

That's a fine sounding goal, but when it comes to solving problems, more information is better than less. The truth is that race is a major factor in problems that need solutions - problems regarding education, crime, disease and family. Without knowing the extent that race plays a role in those problems, we'll never be able to track the success or lack thereof solutions designed to address them. What good does it do to pretend that all problems affect all people the same without regard to race, sex, age, income and other classifications. Placing your head in the sand may spare you the knowledge that is making you uncomfortable, but it does nothing to solve the problem.

Without race statistics, we would not know that blacks are more susceptible to sickle cell anemia. Without race statistics, we would think that black and white women in South Carolina are equally at risk of being killed by the men they know, when the truth is black women are three times more likely to suffer that fate.

If Proposition 54 passes, and other states follow suit, as is expected, future generations of problem solvers will not even be able to correctly identify the problems, let alone solve them.

Ward Connerly's heart may be in the right place, but on this issue, his head is out to lunch.

[coriolis]

Hmmm.
that's a good point.
Thinking.....

I'd be leaning on the side of the fence to abolish the race information. My reasons are that this would be a step towards a "colorblind" society, and that we should not rely on government bean counters and pinheads to solve our problems for us. No matter what, people are responsible for their own destiny, no matter what their circumstances. As long as this information is collected, it will continue the "victimization" of minorities.

That's the other side of this issue. The floor is open for debate.......

[opera ghost]

Without race statistics, we would think that black and white women in South Carolina are equally at risk of being killed by the men they know, when the truth is black women are three times more likely to suffer that fate.

I simply don't see the advantage of race in situations like this at all. There isn't a Prop54 initiative where I live (at least I'm unaware of one). So you have an increased chance of sickle cell in blacks. Okay. That means if the symptoms point towards it- doctors are more likely to preform tests or diagnose it as sickle cell. Cool. That's the kind of info that's useful- a genetic predisposition. Kindof like knowing that my mom had skin cancer and 2 of my grandparents had major bypass surgery.

But in domestic violence situations race shouldn't matter at ALL. If a woman goes to the cops and reports that she's afraid of some man that she knows- race should NEVER fit into the treatment of that case. Murder isn't a genetic predisposition.

I'd like to see neighborhoods profiled. Because any woman- black or white has a fairly equal chance of getting murdered in the ghetto. More black women *tend* to live in the inner city ghettos (along with hispanics and a dozen other races) than white women. Hence the funky numbers. A black woman living in an upper class neighborhood of doctors, lawyers, and politicians does NOT have a 3 to 1 chance of being murdered by someone she knows. It shouldn't be a matter of RACE. It's a matter of safety in the neighborhoods and homes.

But frankly the race difference in SAT scores is more a product of a broken educational system (going back to the neighborhoods) than an inherent learning disability and should NOT be compensated for by colleges. I worked my tail off to accomplish what I've accomplished educationally. My parents went without to send me to one of the top two ranked schools in HISD and I don't want any person- black white or neon orange to be able to walk in with a lower GPA or SAT score just because the statistics say that thier scores are supposed to be lower than mine. They can stay up all hours of the night studying like I did... they can choose to go without to get toutoring like I did. I was born in the ghetto and I'm living in the upper middle class right now. But just because I'm a pasty white mutt I'm race profiled as advantaged. Right. Try telling that to my parents who gave me everything they had as a kid so that I could have a better life than they did.

Race doesn't belong in our schools. Race doens't belong in our police force.
Race belongs in the doctors offices, history, and geneological studies.

Ugh. But I'm rather an idealist and I admit to knowing very little about the entire affair (my knowledge comes from this artical) And I'm very strongly opinionated on a few race issues. *shrgs* such is life.

[j]

What I took from this article was "some" benefits to statistic gathering on races. I'm not convinced either way just yet.

You make some good points operalady, which I agree on 100% (in regards to acheiving success based on hard work, not because you happen to be a minority).

I posted this mainly because it made me stop and think about this, which is important when you go into the voting booth. How many people who will step into that ballot box, will not have even given this a second thought, or for that matter, even care?

[opera ghost]

What I took from this article was "some" benefits to statistic gathering on races. I'm not convinced either way just yet.

You make some good points operalady, which I agree on 100% (in regards to acheiving success based on hard work, not because you happen to be a minority).

I posted this mainly because it made me stop and think about this, which is important when you go into the voting booth. How many people who will step into that ballot box, will not have even given this a second thought, or for that matter, even care?

I know and that's a TOTAL shame. If I'm not informed on an issue- I don't vote on it- I'd rather NOT vote than realize later that I should have voted another way because I didn't understand the issue. At least by not voting at all I have to say "I CAN'T complain- I didn't vote" Rather than "Shoot I helped royally screw that up for everyone!"

My civic minded husband rather objects to my theroy- but he's always much more informed than I am. Politics don't interest me.

[Stephanie]

Good post j! It is something that does make you think twice.

I'm now kind of undecided in this one myself. I see the benefits of both. Focussing too much on race or gender I think has also helped to create stereotypes and resentment, not to mention keeping this society as being "all about race".

Then again, different ethnic backgrounds, races, genders do have their own individual set of problems, physically, emotionally and demographically. I think that some information is needed, but perhaps it's the way that it is used needs to be changed.

[j]

Got to thinking about this some more and in regards to data collection concerning SAT scores.
I think this is another case of where it is important to know the racial and demographic make up of the group.

Case in point: SC has some of the lowest test scores in the country. But...when you break it down demographically, and racially, its very easy to see that the black population, which just so happens to be heavisest in the lower part of the State, drag the SAT scores down. If we did not know this information, we might be looking at the quality and competence of the eduactors across the State. The schools that are predominately black have a much higher drop out rate than the schools that have more whites.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not being racist, rather I'm citing statistics. In SC, more than half of the black students will not graduate High School. Now what are the reasons? They are many...but the bottom line is w/o the profiling that they have been doing over the years, they would not know why the SAT scores were so low, and who was responmsible for bringing them down. They can't begin to solve the problem with blacks dropping out of high school if they don't know that they have a higher incidence of not making it through high school than the white population in the State. The higher north you go in the State, the fewer blacks, the higher SAT scores. This is all information we would not know w/o this information gathering.

That having been said...I am still dead set against your race being included on college applications. That is just wrong. So...I'm still on the fence on this issue.

[streetsoldier]

The social dynamic on blacks (unlike otther minorities, i.e. Hispanic or Asian) tells the story very well...often, there is no "father figure", the mother works two menial jobs or is collecting public assistance, no "extended family" to turn to, and the parent/caregivers are insufficently educated themselves to enable them to monitor and help their children succeed. The Latino/Asian groups have extended families, often strong faith-bases, and a very strong work ethic and drive to excel (especially within the Asian group) which the black minority seems to lack.

This is not to say "all of them", please...and there ARE notable individuals who have succeeded despite these circumstances.

One other thing to mention is that, within our local school district, about 15% are black children, and about 2-5% of these are involved in criminal activities, but this tiny group are responsible for as much as 85% of all crime/disturbances within the schools.

This may not be "politically correct", but the stats don't lie.

[j]

careful Bill....you'll have to resign ala Rush Limbaugh!

[streetsoldier]

What bothers me are certain other inconsistencies in our school district; FI, they "segregate" the "best and brightest" 1st-5th grade students into ONE elementary school. This group of children is well-mixed by race-gender, and I have no problem with that, BUT...

They leave the troubled/disruptive/criminal kids in the other schools. It was suggested that the bright children be dispersed to the other schools, which may "raise the bar" to the advantage of most students, and to take the disruptive kids and send THEM to a separate school, which would be run in a "boot camp", pseudo-corrective manner; thus, freeing the mass of students from harassment, crime, etc.

The district doesn't want to "go there" for fear of the ACLU, Southern Law Poverty Center, etc., etc., as the makeup of the new school would be about 50-50 white/minority kids, which would open the district to a host of lawsuits.

SO, what DO they do with these kids? If no "blood is drawn", they simply push the complaints aside to "keep up appearances" and garner FedBucks.

I know this to be factual...I used to teach there, on the 6-12 level.