STORM2K

Search of All Commercial Aircraft Ordered After Boxcutters Found Onboard Two Planes

More info:
Bags filled with cutting tools, bleach, claylike material left on two Southwest Airlines flights

UPDATE:

FBI finds boxcutters, note in bags on plane at N.O. airport
Suspicious items also found on plane at Houston airport

12:29 PM CDT on Friday, October 17, 2003

By CURT ANDERSON / Associated Press


WASHINGTON - Boxcutters and suspicious notes were found in bags left in the lavatories of a Southwest Airlines plane in New Orleans and Houston, officials said Friday. The discovery prompted government officials to order searches of more than 7,000 aircraft in the nation's commercial fleet.


Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse described the searches as "a precautionary measure." He said they would be conducted by government security personnel.


Southwest employees doing routine maintenance found the items in small plastic bags left in the lavatories of planes in New Orleans and Houston on Thursday night, according to a statement from the airline. The items were turned over to government officials and the FBI and Transportation Security Adminstration immediately began investigating.


The statement said the items appeared "intended to simulate a threat" and that each bag was accompanied by a note that "indicated the items were intended to challenge Transportation Security Administration checkpoint security procedures."


"We will not speculate on who might have left these items on board," the statement said.


Southwest said security checks of its entire fleet of 285 aircraft found no other suspicious items.


The New Orleans flight had originated in Orlando, Fla., and was scheduled to go on to San Diego that night, said Southwest spokeswoman Beth Harbin. The other aircraft was in Houston for routine maintenance.


In addition to the box cutters and notes, the bags contained bleach and some form of clay, according to a senior law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity.


The 19 al-Qaida operatives who hijacked planes and crashed them on Sept. 11, 2001, used box cutters as weapons.


Government officials played down the possibility of a terrorist connection, though FBI spokeswoman Susan Whitson said members of the bureau's joint terrorism task forces are involved in the investigation.


Harbin said Southwest does not believe the items found were connected to a plot to hijack the airplanes.


Al-Qaida and its affiliated terrorist groups have long had an interest in using aircraft as weapons. The FBI and Homeland Security Department have issued numerous warnings about possible tactics terrorists could use, including use of small carry-on items such as cameras to blow up airplanes.

I just read that article over at Fox Cable news website. This really irks me - obviously, someone got by airport security in the first place to leave these two bags on different aircraft. I thought airport screeners were now part of a governmental operation to assure that these workers were capable and legal. Makes me wonder how these things got through to begin with.

On a different level, I wonder if these little packages were left by the same person. Maybe a round ticket flight? Not that it matters but airline tickets aren't inexpensive anymore.

Unfortunately, airline security is only as good as the security screeners. If they can be bribed, aren't well trained, or simply don't care....all the technology on earth won't stop a terrorist.

But Michael Moore said on the "Today Show" last week that "There is no terrorist threat."

But Michael Moore said on the "Today Show" last week that "There is no terrorist threat."

Michael Moore is a dope!! Got rich on our freedom then p#sses all over it!!

stormchazer wrote:Michael Moore is a dope!! Got rich on our freedom then p#sses all over it!!

Isn't that the truth!

How scary! :o And people wonder why I don't want to fly. Even if it was just "a test" if they can do it just then what trained terrorists can do.

Think about this!!!

What in the heck is the media doing splashing this all over the world???

Why not just say outright in headlines as big as you can or better yet post fliers at any Al Queda or other terrorist camp that say "In America where the screening process is a joke, you can hide anything on an airliner to do whatever you want!!"

All of you know me well enough to know I am a staunch advocate of free speech!! However, when that free speech threatens National Security, as I think this does, the rules go out the window IMO!!! I know some of you will say that what I just said is abuse of freedom looking for a place to happen. To that I say BUNK!!! I would rather have to leave for the airport 2 hours early and have a safe flight that has been fully screened than have to worry whether some WACKO has stashed something on my plane!!

IMO, we all have a right to know. This is something that we all need to know about and be aware of.

Well, somebody put some box cutters on a plane, no big deal

Seriously though, blades will NOT get far if they are used in an attempt to get control of the aircraft. Some pilots have guns now, and it is fairly easy for a large crowd of people to take down one with a knife. Also, cockpit doors are strengthened now, and it is nearly impossible to open them from outside when they are locked. I'm sure that if there is an attempted takeover, the pilots will not open the door and come out of the cockpit. The only weapon capable of being used in a takeover now is a gun or a bomb, and they are a lot harder to get onboard than you might think. The fact remains that air travel is still the safest mode of transportation out there, safer than driving, walking down the stairs, taking a train, and even safer than donkeys (yes, it is true, more people are killed by donkeys every year than in plane crashes.)

And I still say passengers are not going to sit by and watch a possible hijacking with little if any resistance, with any weapon of choice - ever again. Until 9/11, hostages prayed and hoped for a good outcome. And complied with commands. I imagine after 9/11 if a guy whipped out a box cutter, you'd see someone resist. So we've got that going for us - the public is much more aware now. And we won't ever be caught offguard again. That has to be some comfort. It is to me - just think of the heroic passengers of Flight 93!

Mary

vbhoutex wrote:Think about this!!!

What in the heck is the media doing splashing this all over the world???

Why not just say outright in headlines as big as you can or better yet post fliers at any Al Queda or other terrorist camp that say "In America where the screening process is a joke, you can hide anything on an airliner to do whatever you want!!"

All of you know me well enough to know I am a staunch advocate of free speech!! However, when that free speech threatens National Security, as I think this does, the rules go out the window IMO!!! I know some of you will say that what I just said is abuse of freedom looking for a place to happen. To that I say BUNK!!! I would rather have to leave for the airport 2 hours early and have a safe flight that has been fully screened than have to worry whether some WACKO has stashed something on my plane!!

David... I agree in principle with what you are saying but can you think of the outrage if something were to happen (God forbid) on an airline and then it came out that this was found and not mentioned to the public at the administration's request?

I agree with what you are saying but I believe fully that Al Qaeda already knows that our airline security still is crap. :o

Agree on that Garrett about the lack of security in the airports still after many improvements that haved been made after 9/11.

I can't disagree with what most said in response to my post. Surprisingly I was not the originator of that thought-it was my 24 yr. old daughter, whom we of course brought up to be a free thinker and willing to respectfully express her opinions, sometimes much to our chagrin. :o I still stand behind what I said though.

The only weapon capable of being used in a takeover now is a gun or a bomb, and they are a lot harder to get onboard than you might think.

Well since several of the things used in this "test", which BTW, a 25 yr. old from NC has now admitted to doing, were possible bomb making materials or at least should have alerted a screener to that possibility, it doesn't appear that it would be that hard.

When I flew over the 4th of July weekend I was carrying my breathing machine for my sleep apnea. Never once was it opened or looked at suspiciously and I was the only one with anything like that I saw. Admittedly, I presume I do not fit a hijacker profile, but this machine has all wires and internal components and shape that I thought would have set off some suspiscions and it didn't. Good screening or hyper sensitivity on my part? I don't know???

My question is this -- if boxcutters are still getting on board, what else is there that we don't know about? What else got past screeners? And are all the cockpit doors actually being locked? Or are we secure just knowing that they are capable of being locked?

GalvestonDuck wrote:And are all the cockpit doors actually being locked? Or are we secure just knowing that they are capable of being locked?

Most that I know of are being locked. The only times when they aren't usually locked is when for some reason there is a problem with the door that doesn't allow it to close. However these problems are rare and usually fixed before the next flight. Pilots don't have a death wish either, they are concerned for the safety of themselves and the passengers as much as anyone, so the doors stay closed.

Well, this latest security breach reaffirms my decision to never fly again. And nystate tells us that flying is the safest way to travel... I will take my chances on the ground. I must not be alone in my thinking either because during the Labor Day holiday the airline industry was complaining that no one was flying. There were record number of holiday travelers driving cars.

"...guns and bombs"? Has anyone remembered RPGs, and/or shoulder-fired, wire-guided SAMs? Not only can these things get through our VERY porous borders, but has the DOD done a check of all such weapons in OUR storage...and are they sure none are "lost, destroyed or unaccounted for (and how many fit these descriptions)"?

Two old cop truisms come to mind here..."Locks (security measures) are meant to keep honest people out" and "If someone really wants to kill you, they will".

Think on this for a little while...I do every day.

Does anyone else here ever imagine a scenario in which you're faced with a threat by terrorists (whether on a plane or whatever) and how you'd handle it?

I wouldn't "think"; I'd just let my "muscle memory" (training) take over.

Stop him (up to, and including the use of deadly force), before he kills me or others. Period.