STORM2K

This just over the newswires at FoxyNews and Msn B.C.
According to UN and US Sources in Korea,the 'situation appears imminant to grim',unless the Crisis is resolved quickly.A Pre emptive Nuclear Volley has enormous consequences to our Pacific Rim allies as well as de-stabilizing the Asian Continent against the West.
As you may recall recently,while Colin Powell was addressing a consulatative group in Seoul,SK..the N Koreans launched a Ballistic Anti-Ship Med Range Missle in a 'test mode'.This flew in the face of talks designed to address the conflict which as you may also recall,is exactly what the NKoreans asked for,that being negotiations,or as I refer to it:Extortion.They are also capable of producing more Nuke Warheads.
The Chinese manufactured Nuke tipped ICBMs(Intercontl' Ballistic Missile) are also of Long Range capabilty,which further raised the eyebrows of the free world recently.This fact,that the ICBMs are capable of striking the US West Coast in set barrage or rogue,coupled with the fact that N Korea openly threatened the US and our allies in the Pac Rim,has our attention.However,we have no 'plans' to attack NK at this time...as 200,000 of our Service Men/Women have been activated and deployed to the presupposed Iraqi Conflict. Not good friends..not good.

I haved said all along from october when the north koreans began to up the tensions that they are much more dangerous than Iraq because already they have 2 nukes.

But also they are talking and threatening a lot to drive the US to negociate with them the energy thing and also the oil.

But this may get out of control if the big father of NK China dont step in soon and pursuade the north to abandon the nuclear ambitions.

They are capable to throw misseles that can reach the west coast of the US and that is very worrisom.

Let's see if China as I said comes in and difuse this crisis that is growing fast.

cycloneye wrote:I haved said all along from october when the north koreans began to up the tensions that they are much more dangerous than Iraq because already they have 2 nukes.

But also they are talking and threatening a lot to drive the US to negociate with them the energy thing and also the oil.

But this may get out of control if the big father of NK China dont step in soon and pursuade the north to abandon the nuclear ambitions.

They are capable to throw misseles that can reach the west coast of the US and that is very worrisom.

Let's see if China as I said comes in and difuse this crisis that is growing fast.

why does anyone think china wants to help us? china is delighted that nkorea is cuasing trouble. this could signal the beginning of china as the only world super power, however. nkorea and iraq may be working together. our foreign policy has no direction right now.

Is the US in more "trouble" than we realized???

Who do you worry about most? The guy supporting terorism (Iraq) or the guy with nukes and a billion cousins. Either way it's not looking good.

rainstorm wrote:

cycloneye wrote:I haved said all along from october when the north koreans began to up the tensions that they are much more dangerous than Iraq because already they have 2 nukes.

But also they are talking and threatening a lot to drive the US to negociate with them the energy thing and also the oil.

But this may get out of control if the big father of NK China dont step in soon and pursuade the north to abandon the nuclear ambitions.

They are capable to throw misseles that can reach the west coast of the US and that is very worrisom.

Let's see if China as I said comes in and difuse this crisis that is growing fast.

why does anyone think china wants to help us? china is delighted that nkorea is cuasing trouble. this could signal the beginning of china as the only world super power, however. nkorea and iraq may be working together. our foreign policy has no direction right now.

From the info. I have gathered, China does not want another nuclear superpower in the region. China would feel threatened if they held that much weight in the world. China will probably wait until the last minute however.

This information is troubling...

Garrett

It's hard to predict anything. China is such an uknown quantity.
I think I'll start building a bomb shelter. Like our Granparents did in the 50's.

The real direct threat that North Korea posses is to South Korea and Japan. The indirect threat is that North Korea will export nuclear weapons to other countries. The implied threat of North Korea sending nuclear missiles to the USA is more of a percieved threat than an actual one. Any launch against the US would result in North Korea ceasing to exist. If China wanted North Korea to have nuclear weapons they would have given them some years ago.

The biggest danger IMO is if we lose our cool and strike first. That would give North Korea the excuse to start a real war. While we have troops station in South Korea they are there really only as a deterrent. With the size of the N. Korean Army they would be quickly overrun just as they were in the 50's. Right now N. Korean is contained and we need to keep it that way.

I agree with you Marshall. If we lose our heads now, and start something, there will be a lot more countries involved than just us and N. Korea and guess where the fingers will be pointing when it's all over. You bet, right at us. People better take a step back and look at what the real consequences (sp) are or we all might be in some serious trouble.

firefighter16 wrote:I agree with you Marshall. If we lose our heads now, and start something, there will be a lot more countries involved than just us and N. Korea and guess where the fingers will be pointing when it's all over. You bet, right at us. People better take a step back and look at what the real consequences (sp) are or we all might be in some serious trouble.

I agree and to me it is no different than what may occur over in Iraq. Yes, they may be funneling money to al-Qaida, but Ossama bin-laden has his own money too...

And if we take out Saddam and Osama then we have two less problems in the world....

And if we take out Saddam and Osama then we have two less problems in the world....

2 less MASS MURDERERS!!!

One by one, we shall take out...

mf_dolphin wrote:The real direct threat that North Korea posses is to South Korea and Japan. The indirect threat is that North Korea will export nuclear weapons to other countries. The implied threat of North Korea sending nuclear missiles to the USA is more of a percieved threat than an actual one. Any launch against the US would result in North Korea ceasing to exist. If China wanted North Korea to have nuclear weapons they would have given them some years ago.

The biggest danger IMO is if we lose our cool and strike first. That would give North Korea the excuse to start a real war. While we have troops station in South Korea they are there really only as a deterrent. With the size of the N. Korean Army they would be quickly overrun just as they were in the 50's. Right now N. Korean is contained and we need to keep it that way.

Marshall,
While I respect your point of view,I will kindly disagree with a portion of you response.It is obvious that the imminent threat is to S Korea and Japan.I allusded to this fact in my opening remarks,ie:Desatabilization of our Pacific Rim Allies.Some back East may not be familiar with the term Pacific Rim.It is commonly used out here.My apologies if I made myself unclear.Furthermore,an 'Implied Threat',is indeed incorrect.The threat was openly made by the NKorens...when the Anti Ship Missile was fired while Colin Powell was in S Korea recently..this on the heels,of N Korea making overtures to the fact that they indeed have the capability to launch short/Med/Long Range ICBMs. The insult was the test firing.
ALL Nuke Exchange conflagrations are of course percieved,except for the Hiroshima/Nagasaki point of historical fusion of mass fear,globally of any further use of such WMD.Hence..USSR and the USA had a 'MAMD'(Mutally Assured Mass Destruction')'understanding after the Cuban Missile Crisis in the Fall of 1962.At the time,it was an 'Elite Club' of Nations that even had 'The Bomb' and we could effectively deal with those that did,and we knew who they were.Now..it is different.Pakistan,India,N Korea have Nukes capable with Missile technology and hardware to deliver.I am not talking Tactical Nukes,or even Dirty Bombs.I am talking major Megatonnage.
This is why JFK could not allow a Communist puppet nation in financial ruins(Cuba)the loaded Silos from the Russkies,just 90nm from Key West,Fla. It was to be a sort of surrogate war with theUSA/ USSR via a Satellite Communist Island Nation.
How was that percieved?Cuba didnt even have the missiles yet,as they were aboard Russkie Frieghters headed inbound..hence the standoff when 2 Sea Captains kept Mutually Assured Mass Destruction withinn the context of thier breif tet au tet.Thankfully,the game of Chicken ended with the Russkie Skipper turning tail.WE WERE THAT CLOSE TO A THERMONUCLEAR EXCHANGE.I know,I remember.
JFK took it seriously.The Test Firings,the ships,the unstable poor Nation used as a way point for our destruction.He took seriously,OUR safety.'Civil Defense' on Mass Media was very new and deployed efficiently and with great skill.NORAD took it seriously.China took it seriously,as they were at the time,afraid of an unstable meglamaniac in Nakita Kruchev.They had good reason.Now,those Cuban Silos.How many?
At least 30.And to which targets?Mainly,due to the tecnology of that time,to deliver within an accurate Ground-Zero Kill Zone,the Entire East Coast,including BOX,NYC,WASH,BALTO,CHAR/NORFOLK/ATL/JAX/MIA/MSY(New Orleans)/Pensacola/Biloxi/HOU,GALV/and possibly Dallas/to the Middle West/Near East.BUFF/CLE/DTW(DET)/ORD(CHI)Minn/StPaul/CVG(Cincy)/STL/KC..and Omaha,which was our main Natl Defense Communications Center.
Any cities west of that region were considered at a lower risk factor for accuracy,albeit they were tagged as targets.Remeber,the Cubans were to have Short/Med Range Missles only.Enough to create havoc and destroy us in theory.Then,there was Red China aiming thier ICBMs at us.Interesting.Can one draw any parallels here?Could present day N Korea be a surrogate for Comm Mainland China,somewhat like 1962 Cuba,in their isolation and degraded economic position.Is the relationship fully understood?Is N Korea a Nuke Superpower on China's level.Regarding the last point,which was directed at your supposition,certainly not.Therefore,they are no threat to mainland China,rather an ally.Furthermore,before I take leave of the Korean portion of this discussion,it is S Korea that is asking for our help,and rightly so.N Korea just re-fired thier Nuke plant and brought it online within the past 72hrs.This is alarming.Perceived?No.It is fact.Do we have adequate forces to 'contain' a rogue Nation with Nukes in the Korean Theatre?No.Therefore,they are not contained,as you contend.Conversely,Iraq is,which I shall address in a moment.Also consider Alaska,Hawaii,W Canada as well as the US West Coast as 'in range'.Have you any idea of the impact of any such 'percieved' ThermoNuclear strike..or Strikes?Suppose for a moment,it is 1962 again.
NYC/BOS//D.C.
Fast forward..Fairbanks/Vancouver/Seattle/Honolulu(Pearl)/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/PHX/TUS/ABQ/DEN
Percieved?Obviously not to Washington,DC...nor to the East Coast.
Supposing those Missiles were pointed at you...as they were at MIA in 1962?Percieved.Interesting.
Iraq is isolated,her neighbors calling now for Saddams ouster or fleeing.Surrounded by a huge US Military,one that rendered them impotent after the 1991 War...N Korea is not surrounded.Nor are they impotent.Nor is thier leader sane.Nor is any ally of thiers calling for ouster or fleeing.Nor does he supposedly want Nukes..he HAS them...NOW.
I know..its easy to fight a pipsqueak.However,the threat is Al Qaeda,then N Korea...then the Phillipines..not Iraq.Where is our National Security headed if we cannot defend ourselves and our allies in REAL trouble?Where is the focus?What may be the consequence of such a blunder?What of our safety?What of our loss of control in the World if we allowed NKorea to propogate such a War due to our remiss duties?What of our Foreign Policy after we attack Iraq?BTW,I did not say that we should not have cool heads..we should,just as the US and Russkie Skippers did.Of course then,we also had President that knew a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER when he saw it.He could also Walk and Chew Gum at the same time.I wish I could say as much for Mr Bush.
That is how I 'percieve' it.

Great summary DJ!

The possibility of North Korea launching a first strike against the United States mainland is slim to remote at best. The missile system in question has not been tested and would result in questionable accuracy at this time. If such a launch was to take place North Korea would cease to exist as anything other than a waste area. My oint about China was that they will be very uncomfortable about North Korea having a large nuclear arsenal as we are. The Chinese could have given them plenty of nuclear weapons and have chosen not to do so for a good reason.

IMO your attempts to draw parallels to the Cuban Missile Crisis are both inaccurate and unfair comparisons. The Cubans were less that 90 miles from our shores and did in fact have missiles already on the ground. The ship that was intercepted and turned around did have more missiles but some were already in-place just not operational. Having a tested delivery system less than 100 miles from our shore is a far cry from the current situation in North Korea. With the exception of a nuclear first strike, North Korea is contained. With Russia and China on one side (not likely targets) the only land based target of opportunity is South Korea. Any attempt to retake South Korea would be declaration of war on the US. Do you really think that China would support that kind of open aggression? I think not. I say again, the biggest danger is the export by North Korea of their nuclear technology to other parties.

The North Korean situation is best left to the international community at this time. I apparently have greater confidence both in our President and in the professional military men who are dealing with this situation. I also found your statement that Mr Bush can't walk and chew gum at the same time both insulting and unworthy of yourself.

As far as Iraq, we also disagree on several point. Most of his neighbors are not calling for him to steo down or flee. The recent Arab League meeting failed to reach agreement at all. There is more and more evidence surfacing that Saddam is supporting terrorists groups by direct financial means. It is not tough to see how this could and probably would evolve if allowed. I see the elimination of Saddams regime a part of the war on terrorism. While I agree that we dealt Saddam's ground forces a major blow in 1991, he is far from impotent on that front and still has vast supplies of chemicl and biological weapons. The very fact the missile system being fielded was developed and deployed after 1991 in violation of the UN resolutions is proof that he still presents a real and present danger to the strategic interests of the United States.

backed down was that he suddenly lost track of where all of our bombers were. I was stationed at Whiteman AFB (now home to B-2's) in 1962 and all of our bomber wing (except for the 6 "hot" aircraft on the alert pad) suddenly disappeared along with all of the nukes stored on base. Talk about walking on tiptoe, those of us left behind KNEW that if the buzzer sounded, it was all over for the Human Race. Unfortunately, the PDRK has no such restraining factor since they are led by a man who is even more over the edge than Saddam. As far as the PRC is concerned, they should be trusted no further than you can throw those 1.5 billion people there. As far as India is concerned, though one is tempted to assume that their reason for developing nukes was to counter Pakistan, the real reason is to counter China since neither Country is fond of each other and have clashed. With a population approaching that of China, India must certainly be thinking long term about who becomes preeminent in Asia (the US does not factor into this scenario since in my estimation we will be about as irrelevant as France is now by the end of the current Century or shortly thereafter).

Steve

Per today's news, Bahrain and Kuwait have also voiced their support that Saddam Hussein should go into exile. That's two more.

Then, there's the breaking news that Luis just posted about NK....

Stephanie, the best thing that could happen is for him to go into exile. Let's just hope it happens. However, if I were a betting man (and I am) I would say it's a 100 to 1 against that happening....

I agree with you MF, I just dont see him doing that, I think he enjoys being in the spot-light way to much.

Saddam likes the spotlight? Good...let me know when his "state funeral" is being aired.