STORM2K

on the UN security council despite the fact that they LOST the war. Why was the 5th seat not given to Canada, one of the victors? I have not been able to figure this out

Derek Ortt wrote:on the UN security council despite the fact that they LOST the war. Why was the 5th seat not given to Canada, one of the victors? I have not been able to figure this out

Huh?

is that the 5 permanent seats on the UN security council were given to the victors of WWII. For some reason, despite being trounced in 1940, France was given one of these 5 seats, instead of Canada, who reigned victorious

Umm... wasn't France on our side? So technically they did win, with our help of course.

I realize France is being stupid, dumb, and arrogant, but this may be going a little too far Derek.

I've asked for many years. France barely held out longer than Poland against the Wehrmacht despite having a much larger Army and sufficient time to mobilize. France's defeatist and appeasement Policies (along with those of Britain) gave Hitler a big advantage before the onset of war. Other overrun countries had as much if not more of a resistance movement than France did. My guess is that it was done as a sop to DeGaulle, who, despite being the head of a defeated Army in exile was as arrogant and insufferable as the French are today (Churchill once said that the greatest Cross he had to bear during the War was the Cross of Lorraine)-apparently, the US Military Leaders decided that we needed the support of DeGaulle and his group for the invasion-something we will never know if it was true or not. Considering that the other veto powers on the Security Council refused to give up even when things were darkest and, in the case of the USSR and China, at great human cost instead of folding in disgrace like France did, it seems to be a total insult that France should share in the spoils of the Victor she was NOT.

Steve

France was given a permanent seat because of what Charles DeGaulle did in leading the Free French/govt in exile. after Paris fell.

n
peace
david

More appropriately (and I've said this many times before), France was granted that seat with veto power as a sop to the French ego, particularly that of General (later President) Charles de Gaulle.

Nothing's changed over the years; France is still as proud, insufferable and arrogant as ever, despite their minimal presence on the world scene.

streetsoldier wrote:More appropriately (and I've said this many times before), France was granted that seat with veto power as a sop to the French ego, particularly that of General (later President) Charles de Gaulle.

Nothing's changed over the years; France is still as proud, insufferable and arrogant as ever, despite their minimal presence on the world scene.

the french now

didn't do as much as he claimed to have done and he was a total thorn in the side of both Churchill and Roosevelt who despised him. It was a sop to him, one not truly deserved given the pathetic performance of the French early in the War. There were other resistance movements in the World that were far more effective than the French were.

Steve

For the record (and this came from my father, now deceased, who was in France during WWII), the FFI (French Forces of the Interior, the "legitimate" arm of the French Government in exile) were nascent at best; "Le Resistance" was habitually splintered into factions that often warred with each other (Sacre Coeur de le Christ le Roi [The Sacred Heart of Christ the King, Catholics], Young Communists, and a band of cutthroats and criminals known as the "Maquis") more than they did the German occupation...

The Poles were far better organized and effective, as were the Czechs, Greeks, etc. in fighting and tying up German troops better needed at the various fronts. The Dutch underground, though quiet, was remarkable in gathering intelligence for the Allies; and the Danish people, led by their King Christian X, openly thwarted the Germans at every turn and served as the main route in the north of Europe in smuggling Jews out of harm's way to Sweden.

"Resistance Francaise, les gallants?", mes amis? It is to laugh...

Didn't france have numerous colonies in other places up until WWII, as did Britian? or was it up intil WWI? I think that for a long time France was a major player in the world scene, with colonies and all that. Maybe the permanent seat was out of respect for that, or else maybe france wouldn't join unless it was granted a permanent seat. I'm just speculating.

france still had colonies during/after WWII. after WWII DeGaulle tried to reestablish french control over indochina, with disasterous results (despite US weapons and money)


peace
david

Yes...I have in my collection a U.S. M-1917 bayonet which was given to the French, rather severely milled down, blade shortened to 8", restamped with the "flaming bomb" logo, and used as an "issue" combat knife for the "Legion Etrangere" and Metro Paras during that timeframe (Indochina/Algeria).

Ugly thing, but it's a good historical artifact.