STORM2K

According to some reports they have pulled back from some of the hot zones. The reason is supposedly because pressing ahead would entail a large number of civilian casualites. I say they should keep going at it. It's no time to quit now. On the other hand if there would have been more troops in Iraq from the beginning and a push to destroy the insurgency way back when, it orobably wouldn't have gotten to this point. The post-war plan has been terrible and that's why I'm not voting for President Bush in November. There was no plan...or no good plan...to win the peace. I posted a much longer message on WW** about all this but that board is down now and I'm not going to repeat everything I said.

Hey Hoosier.. I am not voting for Bush in November either.. This war on terror is a bit senseless. It's a war that will never be won.

Yes we caught Saddam and I think we'll catch or even kill Osama 1 day.. But the entire world can't be stopped of terrorist attacks..

Al Qaeda will still have members if Osama is gone, and any Saddam loyalists still around will continue to wish the Americans will get out.

Yes we are the best country on the Earth, but not every country is going to be like us no matter if we send 1 million troops there or 100..

Josephine96 wrote:Hey Hoosier.. I am not voting for Bush in November either.. This war on terror is a bit senseless. It's a war that will never be won.

Yes we caught Saddam and I think we'll catch or even kill Osama 1 day.. But the entire world can't be stopped of terrorist attacks..

Al Qaeda will still have members if Osama is gone, and any Saddam loyalists still around will continue to wish the Americans will get out.

Yes we are the best country on the Earth, but not every country is going to be like us no matter if we send 1 million troops there or 100..

thats just way too defeatist in my opinion.
the berlin wall would never fall
communism would never fall
the cold war will last forever
people continue to forget that iraqis want the same things we want. prosperity and a safe future for their kids. will it be easy, no. doint the right thing rarely is. see my other post for more good news.

rainstorm wrote:

Josephine96 wrote:Hey Hoosier.. I am not voting for Bush in November either.. This war on terror is a bit senseless. It's a war that will never be won.

Yes we caught Saddam and I think we'll catch or even kill Osama 1 day.. But the entire world can't be stopped of terrorist attacks..

Al Qaeda will still have members if Osama is gone, and any Saddam loyalists still around will continue to wish the Americans will get out.

Yes we are the best country on the Earth, but not every country is going to be like us no matter if we send 1 million troops there or 100..

thats just way too defeatist in my opinion.
the berlin wall would never fall
communism would never fall
the cold war will last forever
people continue to forget that iraqis want the same things we want. prosperity and a safe future for their kids. will it be easy, no. doint the right thing rarely is. see my other post for more good news.

Helen I never thought I would say this but I agree with you 100%.

Hey Hoosier.. I am not voting for Bush in November either.. This war on terror is a bit senseless. It's a war that will never be won.

K, so if you dont think a war on terror will work, then what do you think should be done? Just hope the bad guys go away? I can promise you that wont happen.. lol.. Not being a jerk here, im serious. What else do you suggest be done?

Rainband wrote:

rainstorm wrote:

Josephine96 wrote:Hey Hoosier.. I am not voting for Bush in November either.. This war on terror is a bit senseless. It's a war that will never be won.

Yes we caught Saddam and I think we'll catch or even kill Osama 1 day.. But the entire world can't be stopped of terrorist attacks..

Al Qaeda will still have members if Osama is gone, and any Saddam loyalists still around will continue to wish the Americans will get out.

Yes we are the best country on the Earth, but not every country is going to be like us no matter if we send 1 million troops there or 100..

thats just way too defeatist in my opinion.
the berlin wall would never fall
communism would never fall
the cold war will last forever
people continue to forget that iraqis want the same things we want. prosperity and a safe future for their kids. will it be easy, no. doint the right thing rarely is. see my other post for more good news.

Helen I never thought I would say this but I agree with you 100%.

awesome!!

The problem is not "terrorism". Saying that makes it seem a lot easier than it is. The problem is with the ideology of these others countries and religions. You have to ask yourself...why are we, specifically, the enemy?
The problem we have to solve is that we need to find a way to convince these countries we're not evil and that we're not trying to destroy their religion.
Going in their and attacking these places just pisses off a large number of people and gets the ball rolling again. To a people that have been basically brainwashed by their mythology and government...these attacks look like nothing more than proof of what they've feared all along.
So, as someone else said, not sure where, in regards to the war in Iraq...right there you have the next 10 years of recruitment for Al Qaeda made.

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people, so that they don't believe we're the enemy. If you follow that along to its different conclusions...you'll realize it is literally impossible. It'll be a tremendously lengthy process...
The best thing to do is just to iron out our foreign policy and fix it. It's important to note that our biggest enemies lately were created by our short sightedness...

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people,

Change the ideology of Terorist? NO way no how. Not even doctor Phil could take on that one

chadtm80 wrote:

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people,

Change the ideology of Terorist? NO way no how. Not even doctor Phil could take on that one

Exactly...it's almost impossible because you'd need to change their entire belief system.
And so...going over there an attacking is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The war on terror, fought the way it has been...is only going to lead to more and more people over their thinking that our country is trying to destroy them...and will thus incite them to more terrorism to defend their religion.

Agree Will.. It will cause more harm along the way, but I feel it MUST be done. They think they can just cause terror and get us to back down.. That only means we must be more force full.. imo.

Willh wrote:

chadtm80 wrote:

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people,

Change the ideology of Terorist? NO way no how. Not even doctor Phil could take on that one

Exactly...it's almost impossible because you'd need to change their entire belief system.
And so...going over there an attacking is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The war on terror, fought the way it has been...is only going to lead to more and more people over their thinking that our country is trying to destroy them...and will thus incite them to more terrorism to defend their religion.

But we also need to show them we won't be intimidated or bullied just because they don't like the way we live ours. It became clear after 911 to most people we must and will take the offensive no matter what the cost. We didn't go kill innocent people for our beliefs like they did on September 11th 01. We are just trying to insure the United states or no other country has to indure another 911. IMHO

Rainband wrote:

Willh wrote:

chadtm80 wrote:

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people,

Change the ideology of Terorist? NO way no how. Not even doctor Phil could take on that one

Exactly...it's almost impossible because you'd need to change their entire belief system.
And so...going over there an attacking is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The war on terror, fought the way it has been...is only going to lead to more and more people over their thinking that our country is trying to destroy them...and will thus incite them to more terrorism to defend their religion.

But we also need to show them we won't be intimidated or bullied just because they don't like the way we live ours. It became clear after 911 to most people we must and will take the offensive no matter what the cost. We didn't go kill innocent people for our beliefs like they did on September 11th 01. We are just trying to insure the United states or any other country has to indure another 911. IMHO

The problem isn't that we're trying to fix it...it is simply that we need to do so with more thought given to the future. Think about it...we're the ones who helped both Saddam rise to power...and Bin Laden. What we did with each of them helped us in the immediate future...but then backfired.
And that's because of short sights...and my arguments is simply that we need to be especially more careful of making those sorts of mistakes.
Going into Iraq...and then not having a half decent plan to help them along after we'd taken over is a short sight...and it could prove deadly in the future. That's the problem Hoosier sees with Bush, I think, and the way the war on terror is being fought.

With all do respect how long do you think a war on terror is/was going to take? We certainly were not going to go in there kill a few and it be all said and done. Sure more attacks are going to come in retaliation of us trying to stop them.. Its inevitable. I just dont understand where people are coming from when they say Bruit force has failed.. Come on, its going to take MUCH longer then we have been at it. Dont say it didnt work, cuase the job is not even CLOSE to being done

Willh wrote:

Rainband wrote:

Willh wrote:

chadtm80 wrote:

The only way to win is to change the ideology of these people,

Change the ideology of Terorist? NO way no how. Not even doctor Phil could take on that one

Exactly...it's almost impossible because you'd need to change their entire belief system.
And so...going over there an attacking is not necessarily the correct thing to do. The war on terror, fought the way it has been...is only going to lead to more and more people over their thinking that our country is trying to destroy them...and will thus incite them to more terrorism to defend their religion.

But we also need to show them we won't be intimidated or bullied just because they don't like the way we live ours. It became clear after 911 to most people we must and will take the offensive no matter what the cost. We didn't go kill innocent people for our beliefs like they did on September 11th 01. We are just trying to insure the United states or any other country has to indure another 911. IMHO

The problem isn't that we're trying to fix it...it is simply that we need to do so with more thought given to the future. Think about it...we're the ones who helped both Saddam rise to power...and Bin Laden. What we did with each of them helped us in the immediate future...but then backfired.
And that's because of short sights...and my arguments is simply that we need to be especially more careful of making those sorts of mistakes.
Going into Iraq...and then not having a half decent plan to help them along after we'd taken over is a short sight...and it could prove deadly in the future. That's the problem Hoosier sees with Bush, I think, and the way the war on terror is being fought.

Hindsight is 20/20. The war on Terror is an unprecedented battle. Who are we to question how it's fought Yes we helped saddam and others..at the time we were doing what we thought was right. The lesser of two evils if you will. Just because we made some mistakes in the past doesn't mean the current administration has to forget about our future I am happy someone finally stepped up to the plate. Better late than never

chadtm80 wrote:With all do respect how long do you think a war on terror is/was going to take? We certainly were not going to go in there kill a few and it be all said and done. Sure more attacks are going to come in retaliation of us trying to stop them.. Its inevitable. I just dont understand where people are coming from when they say Bruit force has failed.. Come on, its going to take MUCH longer then we have been at it. Dont say it didnt work, cuase the job is not even CLOSE to being done

I know that President Bush has said it would be an ongoing battle and I believe it. There will always be some radical group that would want to see us defeated. That is why I'm confused as to why the offensive maybe slowing down in those areas. I think after what they did to the 4 American civilians and what they are threatening to do with the current hostages suggests alittle more shock and awe. That is the only thing that these people will understand and yes, it will give them more of an excuse to hate us. We went in with both guns blaring and I think that everyone from the Administration on down to the public understood that it was only going to inflame them. The risk was taken. Now it looks like to me we're going in reverse.

I havent seen any of the reports about us backing down yet Stephanie so I cant realy debate it untill I see it... But its one of those damned if you do damned if you dont things I think. If we attack more and harder and some civilians die then we get Flamed for that and we are nothing more then Terrorists ourselves yada yada yada etc etc etc.. IF we slow down and pull back so civilians dont die then were not doing what were suppose to and are backing down yada yada yada etc etc etc.. Maybe they are strategicly planing? Dunno, but like I said Ive been at work all day and have yet to see any articles about the situation so I am kind of in the dark with it right now..


BTW anyone see the story about the Japanese hotages they have in IRAQ? They sent a video of them bound and gaged and in a room full of guns and Terrorists and said Japan has three days to pull there troops out of they will kill the 3 hostages!!

The "pause in offensive operations" has a couple of things behind it. It gives our troops a time to rest and take a break. It gives the diplomats some time to waste. It gives some of the civilian non-combatants time to ecavuate the area. The people we're after there aren't going anywhere

I understand what you are saying Chad - but I think when we said we were at war with terrorism/Iraq we pretty much said "we don't care what people think". I hope that Marshall is right and it is the calm before the storm.

I've seen the footage of the hostages - it was on the news last night and today.

Kewl Steph.. I can assure you that there not going to just stop. There is a reason for the "delay" im sure.

over there will simply blend in with the non combatants and evacuate as well-Vietnam showed how easy it was to do that.

Steve