OK-im starting a new thread because I dont wanna clog the Pope news thread with my question...
This may sound stupid but please understand that I was raised basically baptist and our preacher never made reference to the Pope. I understand he is Catholic but am clueless about the Catholic religion. The world is apparently about to be very saddened and I wont even know why this is. I have asked people who were talking about this at work and they looked at me like I was stupid and said "If the Pope called our president and said our country was gonna fall if he didnt do something, the president would probably do as the Pope said." Is he a messenger from god and if this is the case, how does the Vatican suddenly elect the world a new Pope? The world can not give a person the power to be in touch with god. I dont understand this but want to so thanks for your help.
Question about the Pope--I dont understand but want to...
Moderator: S2k Moderators
-
Stephanie
- S2K Supporter
- Posts: 23843
- Age: 63
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Glassboro, NJ
I was baptized Catholic, but I'm not a practicing one. However, the Pope is the "leader" of the Catholic faithful. He is our symbol of God in the flesh so to speak and I believe even considered to be "without sin".
Regardless of what Christian faith you follow, he is, IMHO, a great symbol of hope. This man in particular is a great servant of God. Right up to last week, he tried to give the Easter service from the Vatican even though his health has been steadily declining. God Bless Pope John Paul and THANK YOU for your service and light!
Regardless of what Christian faith you follow, he is, IMHO, a great symbol of hope. This man in particular is a great servant of God. Right up to last week, he tried to give the Easter service from the Vatican even though his health has been steadily declining. God Bless Pope John Paul and THANK YOU for your service and light!
0 likes
Stephanie wrote:I was baptized Catholic, but I'm not a practicing one. However, the Pope is the "leader" of the Catholic faithful. He is our symbol of God in the flesh so to speak and I believe even considered to be "without sin".
Regardless of what Christian faith you follow, he is, IMHO, a great symbol of hope. This man in particular is a great servant of God. Right up to last week, he tried to give the Easter service from the Vatican even though his health has been steadily declining. God Bless Pope John Paul and THANK YOU for your service and light!
Well said Steph!!
0 likes
-
kevin
The pope is the Vicar of Christ and the Bishop of Rome. In early history he was powerful because of being in Rome where St. Peter was crucified. Over time he came to be the leader of western christiandom. He is elected by the College of Cardinals who cast secret ballots.
He isn't without sin, and his word isn't infallible. There are two doctrines which are infallible and not based on sola scriptura these being the doctrine of emaculate conception and the assumption. I'm not sure of the exact method by which the Pope makes infallible statements. He does however write encylopedias (statements) and the such on catholic concerns. He is in effect the steward of the church, a way that tradition and cohesiveness can be preserved.
The history of the catholic church is rich.
Here is the wiki article if you're interested :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papacy
He isn't without sin, and his word isn't infallible. There are two doctrines which are infallible and not based on sola scriptura these being the doctrine of emaculate conception and the assumption. I'm not sure of the exact method by which the Pope makes infallible statements. He does however write encylopedias (statements) and the such on catholic concerns. He is in effect the steward of the church, a way that tradition and cohesiveness can be preserved.
The history of the catholic church is rich.
Here is the wiki article if you're interested :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papacy
0 likes
The statement about the pope calling the president is an exaggeration.
Catholics believe that the pope is a sucessor to St. Peter, who they regard as the pre-eminent of the 12 apostles. They trace the sucession back through the years to St. Peter. Catholics rely on the words of Jesus to the effect that "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church." It is somewhat of a play on words, because in the language it was written in, Peter is derived from the word which means rock. This is subject to differing interpretations and translations. Not being a scholar, I can't comment on that. Catholics regard Peter as the hand-picked leader of the church and like I said, trace the succession.
I don't know that the Catholic church considers the pope to be without sin - I don't think so, but they do believe that when he makes certain decisions or pronouncements, that he is inspired and therefore infallible.
The pope is selected by archbishops or cardinals, who vote in secret.
In the Catholic church he is given authority over all Catholics, and his influence in ameirca is strongest among the Catholics which represent the largest single denomination in America and therefore a lot of voters.
He also has influence in the form of persuasion, over many others, only becuase his arguements speak with a morality that resonates within people.
He does not have authority over any governments, but the power of the persuasion is real, especially with catholic citizens in the various countries. In heavily catholic countries, he is a force to be reckoned with.
Hope that helps
Catholics believe that the pope is a sucessor to St. Peter, who they regard as the pre-eminent of the 12 apostles. They trace the sucession back through the years to St. Peter. Catholics rely on the words of Jesus to the effect that "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church." It is somewhat of a play on words, because in the language it was written in, Peter is derived from the word which means rock. This is subject to differing interpretations and translations. Not being a scholar, I can't comment on that. Catholics regard Peter as the hand-picked leader of the church and like I said, trace the succession.
I don't know that the Catholic church considers the pope to be without sin - I don't think so, but they do believe that when he makes certain decisions or pronouncements, that he is inspired and therefore infallible.
The pope is selected by archbishops or cardinals, who vote in secret.
In the Catholic church he is given authority over all Catholics, and his influence in ameirca is strongest among the Catholics which represent the largest single denomination in America and therefore a lot of voters.
He also has influence in the form of persuasion, over many others, only becuase his arguements speak with a morality that resonates within people.
He does not have authority over any governments, but the power of the persuasion is real, especially with catholic citizens in the various countries. In heavily catholic countries, he is a force to be reckoned with.
Hope that helps
0 likes
This space for rent.
-
southerngale
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 27418
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:27 am
- Location: Southeast Texas (Beaumont area)
There are things I don't understand about the Catholic religion too. I may be wrong but I think that Catholics believe the Pope can bless them. Although he is a great man of God, a well respected leader, and a very moral man, he is just a man and not God so he can't actually bless anyone. Only our Holy Father, God, can. 
Like I said, I could be wrong about what Catholics believe. If so, disregard my comments. lol
Like I said, I could be wrong about what Catholics believe. If so, disregard my comments. lol
0 likes
-
CajunMama
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 10791
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:57 pm
- Location: 30.22N, 92.05W Lafayette, LA
I've been trying to remember what my priest told me in my RCIA (conversion) class and I think it is somewhat like Stephanie said. He is chosen to represent God in the human flesh.
This has to do with the Catholic Hierarchy. The following is a quote from my RCIA notes. "Jesus aurthorized certain men to exercise His supreme power. The authorizing is known as ordaining and electing. Holy Orders is the sacramental expression of this sacred ordering."
This has to do with the Catholic Hierarchy. The following is a quote from my RCIA notes. "Jesus aurthorized certain men to exercise His supreme power. The authorizing is known as ordaining and electing. Holy Orders is the sacramental expression of this sacred ordering."
Last edited by CajunMama on Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 likes
-
Anonymous
-
Rainband
With all due respect. The pope can and has blessed people. Catholics have different beliefs than Christians do. Not wrong, just different.southerngale wrote:There are things I don't understand about the Catholic religion too. I may be wrong but I think that Catholics believe the Pope can bless them. Although he is a great man of God, a well respected leader, and a very moral man, he is just a man and not God so he can't actually bless anyone. Only our Holy Father, God, can.
Like I said, I could be wrong about what Catholics believe. If so, disregard my comments. lol
0 likes
-
streetsoldier
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 9705
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:33 pm
- Location: Under the rainbow
In addition to what has been already stated...
Jesus Christ said to His disciples, "Who do you say I am?" Simon answered, "You are the Christ, the Living Son of God".
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by My Father in Heaven. Therefore, you are no longer Simon, but (or, "Your name is") Peter (or Cephas, "stone"), and upon this Rock I will biuld My Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (which is why the Papal flag and seal always display crossed keys); whatever you seal on earth shall be sealed in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be unbound in Heaven." -Matthew, 16:15-19
This was not allegorical, but (in the Catholic tradition), a direct command from Christ...that Peter should be the Head, or Vicar (i.e. person who stands in place) of Christ to His Church. Peter became the first Bishop (episcopos, or overseer) of Rome and of all the smaller churches in that area (diocese)...individual church leaders were the elders (presbyteros, or priests), who preached His Word, and those who took care of the widows and orphans, or other business for each church were called diakonos (deacons).
As for blessing...this can be done by ordinary priests, or bishops...such as in Marriage, Baptism, Communion, Rite of Reconciliation (once called Penance) and Anointing of the Sick (once called Last Rites)...but only a bishop may consecrate deacons, priests and new bishops. And in the Roman Catholic Church, the Papal Blessing is considered of special power and significance.
The doctrine of "infallibility" is only apllied to matters of faith and morals, and even then must be in the form of a document proclaimed ex cathedra (literally, "from the chair", or Throne of St. Peter); this is sealed ( bulla) by the Papal Seal, and is then called a "Papal Bull".
The Bishop of Rome was seen as the preeminent See (high office) in the early Church, and asserted this status through Christ's command to Peter in the Gospels; this status was not solidified until the time of Pope Leo the Great (451 AD, through his successful intervention with Atilla the Hun to save Rome from sacking) and became canon (Church) law through Pope Gregory the Great (600 AD).
See 1 Timothy 3 for Church offices and how they are empowered.
Jesus Christ said to His disciples, "Who do you say I am?" Simon answered, "You are the Christ, the Living Son of God".
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by My Father in Heaven. Therefore, you are no longer Simon, but (or, "Your name is") Peter (or Cephas, "stone"), and upon this Rock I will biuld My Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (which is why the Papal flag and seal always display crossed keys); whatever you seal on earth shall be sealed in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be unbound in Heaven." -Matthew, 16:15-19
This was not allegorical, but (in the Catholic tradition), a direct command from Christ...that Peter should be the Head, or Vicar (i.e. person who stands in place) of Christ to His Church. Peter became the first Bishop (episcopos, or overseer) of Rome and of all the smaller churches in that area (diocese)...individual church leaders were the elders (presbyteros, or priests), who preached His Word, and those who took care of the widows and orphans, or other business for each church were called diakonos (deacons).
As for blessing...this can be done by ordinary priests, or bishops...such as in Marriage, Baptism, Communion, Rite of Reconciliation (once called Penance) and Anointing of the Sick (once called Last Rites)...but only a bishop may consecrate deacons, priests and new bishops. And in the Roman Catholic Church, the Papal Blessing is considered of special power and significance.
The doctrine of "infallibility" is only apllied to matters of faith and morals, and even then must be in the form of a document proclaimed ex cathedra (literally, "from the chair", or Throne of St. Peter); this is sealed ( bulla) by the Papal Seal, and is then called a "Papal Bull".
The Bishop of Rome was seen as the preeminent See (high office) in the early Church, and asserted this status through Christ's command to Peter in the Gospels; this status was not solidified until the time of Pope Leo the Great (451 AD, through his successful intervention with Atilla the Hun to save Rome from sacking) and became canon (Church) law through Pope Gregory the Great (600 AD).
See 1 Timothy 3 for Church offices and how they are empowered.
0 likes
-
ColdFront77
-
streetsoldier
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 9705
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:33 pm
- Location: Under the rainbow
Of course...and nowhere does it say differently.
However, in Catholic practice, the benediction of a priest is considered spiritually separate and valuable, as it carries the power of those who "laid hands" upon him at his consecration...in an unbroken line leading back to Apostolic times; more so for bishops, archbishops, and Cardinals. But a Papal blessing is particularly sought after, and the most difficult to attain/receive.
I'm not RC today, but I was educated by Jesuits; and still, as an Anglican, accept the Pope as the "Bishop of Rome", but not as a/the "bishop of bishops" according to the canons of my faith.
But I remember every word of my catechism (religious education); which is why I'm able to enunciate Catholic faith and practice in this thread.
However, in Catholic practice, the benediction of a priest is considered spiritually separate and valuable, as it carries the power of those who "laid hands" upon him at his consecration...in an unbroken line leading back to Apostolic times; more so for bishops, archbishops, and Cardinals. But a Papal blessing is particularly sought after, and the most difficult to attain/receive.
I'm not RC today, but I was educated by Jesuits; and still, as an Anglican, accept the Pope as the "Bishop of Rome", but not as a/the "bishop of bishops" according to the canons of my faith.
But I remember every word of my catechism (religious education); which is why I'm able to enunciate Catholic faith and practice in this thread.
0 likes
-
azskyman
- S2K Supporter
- Posts: 4104
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:36 am
- Location: Scottsdale Arizona
- Contact:
I, too, am not a practicing Catholic, but your responses here are helpful. Most religions undergo great pressure from outside forces to alter their foundation and mold themselves around the "ways fo the world" as they are interpreted by the societies of the present.
The divine connection you describe here sets the stage for the Pope to be at the center of all those worldly pressures....while at the same time adhering to the principals and truths that remain constant with God.
The Pope's ability to be a conduit for those truths while being beloved and revered by those who carry on in the societies is what defines, in some ways, the true strength of the Catholic foundation.
And so, for all the darkness and discouraging news both within the church and outside of it the last three decades, Pope John Paul II has been a pillar of those truths.
While there is criticism among the masses for some of his unforgiving ways, most will remember him for that conviction to the basics and revere him for that.
It is not surprising to me, however, that in a world where religious leaders have so much power and impact so many people, that war in the name of religion is so deeply rooted.
While the Pope and his following of millions, perhaps billions, are made stronger by those convictions, so too are the followers of other religions as well.
The Pope carried out his mission and conviction to the end. So too have others in other religions.
It is a huge responsibility to let that end represent struggle and the commitment to peace without hate as this Pope has done.
The divine connection you describe here sets the stage for the Pope to be at the center of all those worldly pressures....while at the same time adhering to the principals and truths that remain constant with God.
The Pope's ability to be a conduit for those truths while being beloved and revered by those who carry on in the societies is what defines, in some ways, the true strength of the Catholic foundation.
And so, for all the darkness and discouraging news both within the church and outside of it the last three decades, Pope John Paul II has been a pillar of those truths.
While there is criticism among the masses for some of his unforgiving ways, most will remember him for that conviction to the basics and revere him for that.
It is not surprising to me, however, that in a world where religious leaders have so much power and impact so many people, that war in the name of religion is so deeply rooted.
While the Pope and his following of millions, perhaps billions, are made stronger by those convictions, so too are the followers of other religions as well.
The Pope carried out his mission and conviction to the end. So too have others in other religions.
It is a huge responsibility to let that end represent struggle and the commitment to peace without hate as this Pope has done.
0 likes
-
Derek Ortt
Rainband,
Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. To say that Catholics are not Christians is a bit misguided. The original Christians were strictly Cahtolic and Protestantism (which I may very well leave to be a Catholic since Catholicism does follow the teachings of the gospels far more closely than do Protestant teachings, which vascillate with public opinion), only began in the 1500's with Martin Luther.
Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. To say that Catholics are not Christians is a bit misguided. The original Christians were strictly Cahtolic and Protestantism (which I may very well leave to be a Catholic since Catholicism does follow the teachings of the gospels far more closely than do Protestant teachings, which vascillate with public opinion), only began in the 1500's with Martin Luther.
0 likes
-
Derek Ortt
I am sure that Christ will provide the necessary guidance to the Cardinals when electing the next pope. He will never allow someone evil to lead any branch of his church. Now, we may not initially agree with the choice, as many back about 2000 years ago didn't agree with his choice to have Paul be the one to spread the Gospel throughout the Roman Empire as he was a Christian persecuting Pharisee at the time (history shows that Christ knew exactly what he was doing as Paul, being a Roman citizen, had far less persecution from Rome to deal with).
I saw, we should be patient, and allow Christ to do what he needs to do
I saw, we should be patient, and allow Christ to do what he needs to do
0 likes
-
streetsoldier
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 9705
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:33 pm
- Location: Under the rainbow
It should be noted here that the Roman Catholic Church is not the only one with Apostolic roots; the various Eastern Orthodox churches, Nestorians, Coptics, Assyrians, and Anglicans (Episcopalians in the U.S.) also share in that tradition, which is called either "Apostolic Succession" or "episcopal polity".
And what we see as Protestantism, in its many, many forms, actually dates from about 1400, through the teachings of Jan Huss and Jan Ziska; Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin enriched and expanded these teachings.
What IS important is that, no matter which Christian denomination we practice, we all worship God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; the details thereof are superfluous to that belief.
And what we see as Protestantism, in its many, many forms, actually dates from about 1400, through the teachings of Jan Huss and Jan Ziska; Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin enriched and expanded these teachings.
What IS important is that, no matter which Christian denomination we practice, we all worship God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; the details thereof are superfluous to that belief.
0 likes
-
Stephanie
- S2K Supporter
- Posts: 23843
- Age: 63
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Glassboro, NJ
Lindaloo wrote:Stephanie wrote:I was baptized Catholic, but I'm not a practicing one. However, the Pope is the "leader" of the Catholic faithful. He is our symbol of God in the flesh so to speak and I believe even considered to be "without sin".
Regardless of what Christian faith you follow, he is, IMHO, a great symbol of hope. This man in particular is a great servant of God. Right up to last week, he tried to give the Easter service from the Vatican even though his health has been steadily declining. God Bless Pope John Paul and THANK YOU for your service and light!
Well said Steph!!
(((HUGS))) Lindaloo!
0 likes
-
Stephanie
- S2K Supporter
- Posts: 23843
- Age: 63
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Glassboro, NJ
streetsoldier wrote:It should be noted here that the Roman Catholic Church is not the only one with Apostolic roots; the various Eastern Orthodox churches, Nestorians, Coptics, Assyrians, and Anglicans (Episcopalians in the U.S.) also share in that tradition, which is called either "Apostolic Succession" or "episcopal polity".
And what we see as Protestantism, in its many, many forms, actually dates from about 1400, through the teachings of Jan Huss and Jan Ziska; Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin enriched and expanded these teachings.
What IS important is that, no matter which Christian denomination we practice, we all worship God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; the details thereof are superfluous to that belief.
AMEN Bill!
0 likes
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests