STORM2K

lets say 2 men are walking down the street and come across a homeless man. man A takes some money out of his pocket and gives it to the homeless man. nothing wrong with that.
scenario 2: the same 2 men come across the homeless man. man B takes a gun out, puts it to the head of man A and forces him to give his money to the homeless man.
this is the same thing the govt does. at the point of a gun(try not paying your taxes), it confiscates money from wage earners.
it is time we stop feeling "entitled" to allow the govt to forcibly take money from producers and give it to us, or other people. instead of us taking a gun and stealing a person's money, we allow the govt to do it for us, and it is wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree! Thanks for sharing!

There ARE people to whom this does not, and should not apply, "rainstorm", such as myself.

I worked and placed my more-than-fair share into the Social Security system; when it became clear that I was no longer able to work, thank God that system was in place!

I suppose that you'd rather I'd starved to death? No place in our society for what the Nazis once called "useless eaters"?

I want a direct answer. ASAP.

Agreed. We need to go out and make a living for ourselves, not force others to give us everything

I gotta go on streetsoldier on this one. If someone has worked during their lifetime, they are entitled to help if they need it. It is a different story if the person has not worked or is just abusing the system, but there are many people who deserve the help.

WOW, this could be a touchy thread.

(deleted by Coriolis)

streetsoldier wrote:There ARE people to whom this does not, and should not apply, "rainstorm", such as myself.

I worked and placed my more-than-fair share into the Social Security system; when it became clear that I was no longer able to work, thank God that system was in place!

I suppose that you'd rather I'd starved to death? No place in our society for what the Nazis once called "useless eaters"?

I want a direct answer. ASAP.

1-the social security system is a joke. you should keep the money you earn and invest it yourself. people would be better off that way. a person should be able at any time to write the govt and say they want their social secuity money sent to them.
as far as you are concerned, or people in your condition, there should be monety set aside for extreme circumstances.
another example of how the social security system is theft is the example of black males, the poorest segment of society. the avg life expectancy of a black male is below the age they can collect "their" ss benefits. the govt counts on them dying to help keep the system solvent.
2-if a person were to invest the money the govt confiscated from them in ss taxes in a private account they would be infinitly better off, and the money would actually belong to them. alot of people will never see a cent of ss money, nor will their relatives get the money. a private account belongs to you, and is yours, or your heirs.
again, no one begrudges special circumstances such as yours, but it is time the able-bodied stop using the govt to take money from others

(deleted by Coriolis)

Not everyone is able or financially astute enough to spend their spare time playing the markets...I was too busy dodging bullets to add another set of worries to an already-full plate.

Nice in theory...but far from a workable proposal for the average Joe...or Jane.

2 more examples:
the child tax credit-if you cant afford to have children, dont have them. a person should not have their hand out for a check because they have kids.
a person has no right to have the govt take money form taxpayers and give to someone else.
having children is a choice.
another example: alot of people are whining now because they were left out of this tax cut. however, many of them pay no income tax at all. again, they have no reason to stick their hand out and demand the govt confiscate money from people who do pay income tax and give it to them.

WOW! I need a beer!

streetsoldier wrote:Not everyone is able or financially astute enough to spend their spare time playing the markets...I was too busy dodging bullets to add another set of worries to an already-full plate.

Nice in theory...but far from a workable proposal for the average Joe...or Jane.

many people will never see a dime of the money the govt has confiscated from them, nor will their heirs. most people will never get back what they put in. this is another problem. for some reason you think the govt somehow has your best interests at heart. it doesnt. the avg. jane or joe should be able to do what they want with their money. and i dare say , jane and joe are much more trustworthy and astute than the "govt angels"

I agree entirely Rainstorm. Great observation.

Jim

rainstorm wrote:2 more examples:
the child tax credit-if you cant afford to have children, dont have them. a person should not have their hand out for a check because they have kids.
a person has no right to have the govt take money form taxpayers and give to someone else.
having children is a choice.
another example: alot of people are whining now because they were left out of this tax cut. however, many of them pay no income tax at all. again, they have no reason to stick their hand out and demand the govt confiscate money from people who do pay income tax and give it to them.

Well on this portion, I have to agree to a fault ... because some families do have unfortunate circumstances which put them in a bad situation...however, in the other case, couples having children just for tax breaks, well then, that's where I agree with with RS 100%.

This is gonna be a touchy thread for sure.

Social Security could be renamed to So-So Security ... in which, the system is flawed. However, without it, especially reading through this thread has helped Streetsoldier immensely (I hope I read that right).
But what does get me though ... death benefits, social security pays $255 - that's where I have a real problem with, especially since the average funeral is somewhere around $5,000 or more.

Look...I do not "think" anything of the sort...back off, Helen.

streetsoldier wrote:Look...I do not "think" anything of the sort...back off, Helen.

should have the option of allowing the govt to take their money and hold it for them in the hope that they will get a tiny portion of it back before they die. however, people should also be allowed to do whatever they want with thier money.
the ss system is designed to make people subserviant to the govt. it is a vote buying scheme.
i am not upset at you at all. there are legitimate functions for the govt, but it is time people stop looking toward the govt as a means to take money from other people. i dont include you in this.

We have now entered the "No Win Zone"

Rainstorm, you've got one vote, I've got one vote. My vote will cancel yours.

While the Social Security system is far from perfect it's the best we have right now. Sure there are ways it can be improved but to call it stealing by the government is both inflamatory and inaccurate. You insist on using trigger words to inflame and it's really not necessary for your aurguement. I would like to remind you Rainstorm that the laws were inacted by the government we elect. If you don't like the situation elect new officials and hold them accountable for their votes.

To discuss a couple of your examples in detail:

1) The man with the gun and the homeless man - We elected Man B and gave him the authority to use the "gun". Kind of takes away your arguement. Would you have all social programs discontinued? Someone has to pay for them. I for one think it's absolutely criminal that in the world's richest country we have people that can't get quality healthcare! Your "it's my money" rhetoric just doesn't hold water and is an extremely selfish point of view. We have a system of taxation with representation. The Social Security System is there for a reason; 1)- to help those less fortunate and 2) to assist the long time wage earner in the later years of their life. May be flawed in it's execution but that's where we need to work on improving it not abolish it.

2)

the social security system is a joke. you should keep the money you earn and invest it yourself. people would be better off that way. a person should be able at any time to write the govt and say they want their social secuity money sent to them.
as far as you are concerned, or people in your condition, there should be monety set aside for extreme circumstances.
another example of how the social security system is theft is the example of black males, the poorest segment of society. the avg life expectancy of a black male is below the age they can collect "their" ss benefits. the govt counts on them dying to help keep the system solvent.

You seem to cntradict yourself here and omit some other facts. If they are the poorest segment then they pay the least into the system. You also fail to acknowledge the Social Security System pays benefits beside retirement benefits. How about benefits to widows and dependent children? What would you do about those? Tell them "too bad, your bad luck?" Where is the money coming from for the "extreme circumstances" that you mention?

Well at least for the morning I'm our of time and have to get to work so I can pay my taxes including Social Security. Rainstorm you do have some valid points. I for one would like the option of investing a portion of my SS contribution money in a private account for my own retirement. I think I could do a better job. However, I also own up to the responsibility as an American and a caring human to assist others less fortunate than me and my family. (more to follow)

While on the subject of SS I offer the following:

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the federal government to "put away," you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which party took Social Security from an independent fund and put it in the general fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic-controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which party put a tax on Social Security?
A: The Democratic party.

Q: Which party increased the tax on Social Security?
A: The Democratic Party with Al Gore casting the deciding vote.

Q: Which party decided to give money to immigrants?
A: That's right, immigrants moved into this country and at 65 got SSI Social Security. The Democratic Party gave that to them although they never paid a dime into it.

Then, after doing all this, the Democrats turn around and tell you the Republicans want to take your Social Security.

And the worst part about it is, people believe it!

j wrote:While on the subject of SS I offer the following:

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the federal government to "put away," you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which party took Social Security from an independent fund and put it in the general fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic-controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which party put a tax on Social Security?
A: The Democratic party.

Q: Which party increased the tax on Social Security?
A: The Democratic Party with Al Gore casting the deciding vote.

Q: Which party decided to give money to immigrants?
A: That's right, immigrants moved into this country and at 65 got SSI Social Security. The Democratic Party gave that to them although they never paid a dime into it.

Then, after doing all this, the Democrats turn around and tell you the Republicans want to take your Social Security.

And the worst part about it is, people believe it!

private accounts is because they dont want to give up controlling peoples lives. what dolphin said is what i believe to be the problem. the tax code and ss system are both designed now as tools to buy votes. both parties do it.
we have become an "entitlement" society. too many people feel they are "entitled" to ohter peoples money. what happened to the republican party and shrinking govt control over our lives? why not start with the education department? since it was started in the 70's by carter as a payoff to the teachers unions, can anyone name anything this dept has done to advance the cause of education? does anyone wonder what dept of education employees do all day? just one example of many.