STORM2K

At last word, just 240 Israeli families remain in the Gaza Strip. In carrying out his Gaza Disengagement plan, Prime Minister Sharon has sent an unmistakable signal that Israel can take difficult substantive steps in the pursuit of peace--even initiate them.

What happens next will largely depend on how the Palestinians take advantage of their golden opportunity to begin building a peaceful and prosperous state starting in the Gaza Strip. The steps the Palestinians take in the pursuit of peace, namely building the security necessary for diplomacy to proceed, will be most important.

Skeptics have suggested that the Gaza Strip cannot be a source of prosperity. However, people intimately familiar with the Gaza Strip, such as Khan Yunis Mayor Osama al-Farra, know far better. The August 18, 2005 issue of The Jerusalem Post reported, "Farra's plans for Khan Yunis's future are elaborate. The new city will consist of a large neighborhood of at least 3,000 low-income housing units and several neighborhoods for 'low-density housing,' i.e. villas. The municipality plans on utilizing the massive agricultural infrastructure the settlers will leave behind and setting aside large swaths of land for 'green areas.' A long beach-side strip of land, where the abandoned Gush Katif Palm Hotel now sits, has been set aside to build a tourist resort. 'I would not be surprised if the Hilton or Four Seasons chains seek to build hotels there,' said an admittedly optimistic Farra.

He expects tourism to play a major role in the future Gaza economy, provided Israel eases its control on crossing terminals in and out of the 340 sq. km. Gaza Strip. The building contracts, the resort and the newly attained swaths of agricultural land will alleviate both urban density and unemployment, 'making Khan Yunis a vital city in the Gaza Strip,' said Farra."

Israel has indicated that it has every willingness to help the Palestinians make the most of their opportunity. In an interview with the Kuwaiti daily Al-Rai Al-Aam, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom pledged that the Gaza Strip will not become a "prison for Palestinians and negotiations for safe passages were ongoing."

Shalom also stated, "It depends on how things go after the Gaza example and whether it will succeed," while warning "If Gaza turns into a base for shooting missiles at Israel and increasing Palestinian attacks, it will be dimpossible to move on to another step and take a new risk."

Hence, success will almost certainly depend on whether the Palestinian leadership dismantles the Hamas terrorist group and its infrastructure. Already, Israeli Ambassador to the United States, Daniel Ayalon discloses of the Hamas terrorist group, "...we observe a very massive buildup with recruitment and training of new terrorists, of mobilizing more financial support and explosive munitions, and having the cells ready and the chain of command ready... This is literally a ticking bomb that can explode whenever they find it suitable to their purposes."

Critics will likely suggest that the demand that Hamas and its infrastructure be dismantled is unreasonable. On the contrary, expecting Israel to make all the substantive concessions without the Palestinians taking basic steps--including those mandated in the Road Map--to bring about the security necessary for the peace process to progress is unreasonable.

At this point in time, the survival of Hamas and its infrastructure is almost certainly mutually exclusive of realizing the possibility for peace. Hamas views the world through an unmistakably anti-Semitic lens and seeks the destruction of Israel and her people. Such goals are antithetical to peaceful co-existence between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples.

One need look no farther than the terrorist group`s own Charter for proof of its hateful nature. The Charter explicitly references the notorious anti-Semitic "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in seeking to turn Palestinian and Arab hearts and minds against Israel and Israelis.

The Hamas Charter declares, "The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the `Protocols of the Elders of Zion`..." Furthermore, Hamas uses its Mosques and schools to breed hate. Its Charter decrees, "It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses)..." Hence, it is not surprising that the Hamas Charter also declares, "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

As Hamas seeks to perpetuate a framework of hate and violence, Hamas is an enemy both of Palestinians who genuinely desire peace and Israelis alike. Hamas is a big part of the geopolitical environment that continues to bring suffering to the region. Hamas is no part of the solution.

Although the current Palestinian leadership finds it expedient to try to work with Hamas, I believe this is a grave error on their part. Such cooperation can only endanger prospects for peace in the long-run, as Hamas remains bent on its objective of eliminating Israel.

Hamas needs to be dismantled. The sooner the better. Otherwise, its "factories of hate" will continue to churn out new generations of terrorists who have been indoctrinated by its hateful and violent ideology and there will be no meaningful possibility for peace.

Palestinians have been victimized for almost 60 years by the twin tragedies of failed leaders (Husseini and Arafat) and terrorist groups who transform youth into terrorists, stealing from them their lives, opportunities, honor, and humanity in the process. It should not be a difficult choice for the Palestinian Authority to choose peace over Hamas and to begin dismantling the terrorist group to bring peace a little closer.

Best of all, the Palestinian leadership actually has the means to take that step. "Do they have the means to do it?," Ayalon asked, according to Haaretz, and then responded, "Absolutely. The PA has the support of the Palestinian people and has the manpower and weapons. There are 60,000 security people on the payroll, and that outnumbers Hamas 30 to 1."

Now that Israel has taken a giant step toward peace and given Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip a historic opportunity to begin building a peaceful and prosperous society, the next step belongs to the Palestinians. Making the decision to take on the biggest threat to peace--Hamas and its infrastructure--would be a good step to match Israel's bold, difficult, and heart-wrenching decision.

showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

rainstorm wrote:showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

worked for us a couple of hundred of years ago..

showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

Thankfully diplomacy is not the work of simple thinking, and taking abstract statements and apply them to real world problems. That kind of black and white thinking does lead definetely to death and war.

Bulldozing homes and occupying territory by force of arms rarely works, my analysis is many jews have died. So have Palestinians. And reliance on dogma and unwillingness to compromise is the PROBLEM ON BOTH sides.

Do you think Sharon is a hippie rainstorm? The man is known as the butcher of Beruit! This isn't a land of angels and demons. The Palestinians do use terror. The Israelis are authoritarian in their occupation. Its a cycle of violence.

I would want to kill if my family or friends were killed by a suicide bomber. I would want to kill if my home was bulldozed, or my best friend shot by a man who has no place in my neighborhood. These are human emotions. The need for revenge. But revenge is not the basis for the law, justice is, and for democracy and peace to work it must be based on compromise and rational policy.

The Palestinians have showed a willingness to shoot at Palestinians. The Israelis have showed their determination to oppose those who would forcibly oppose the law. Everything must move forward with a step. You cannot have the Palestinians give all their arms up. You cannot have the Israelis give terrorism a place to gather force. I do not care much for morality and the abstract, thousands of people have died because two nations armed to the teeth are plotting for power and land. The only thing that will save lives is give and take.

Unless you want Israel to become a dictatorship, and the Palestinians to fight for all time, peace cannot be seized.

wxcrazytwo wrote:

rainstorm wrote:showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

worked for us a couple of hundred of years ago..

What are you talking about???

kevin wrote:

wxcrazytwo wrote:

rainstorm wrote:showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

worked for us a couple of hundred of years ago..

What are you talking about???

Manifest Destiny baby, Manifest Destiny...

wxcrazytwo wrote:

kevin wrote:

wxcrazytwo wrote:

rainstorm wrote:showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

worked for us a couple of hundred of years ago..

What are you talking about???

Manifest Destiny baby, Manifest Destiny...

You're not making any sense. I know about Manifest Destiny, and the occupation of the Indian land. Breaking treaties freshly signed. Killing all those taller than the height of a man's knee. Strapping genitalia to horses as the cavalry thunders from another massacre.

Rainstorm says that showing weakness to an enemy doesn't work. You say us being weak with the indians worked. I think you misread something. Since we were not weak with the indians.

kevin wrote:

wxcrazytwo wrote:

kevin wrote:

wxcrazytwo wrote:

rainstorm wrote:showing weakness to an enemy rarely works. my guess is many more jews will die. give an inch, take a mile

worked for us a couple of hundred of years ago..

What are you talking about???

Manifest Destiny baby, Manifest Destiny...

You're not making any sense. I know about Manifest Destiny, and the occupation of the Indian land. Breaking treaties freshly signed. Killing all those taller than the height of a man's knee. Strapping genitalia to horses as the cavalry thunders from another massacre.

Rainstorm says that showing weakness to an enemy doesn't work. You say us being weak with the indians worked. I think you misread something. Since we were not weak with the indians.

what I was referring to was give an inch take a mile..

Ahhh thanks, that makes sense.

more dead jews to follow. already tonight the muslim butchers are saying their killing made the israelis back down. the more weakness you show, the more your enemy will attack. they are already making new demands. these people are barbaric

arabs can live with jews, jews cant live with arabs. it was pointed out tonite that more than 1 million arabs live in israel will full rights.
sorry, but these butchers want every jew in the middle east exterminated and they just got one step closer to that goal. there is no concession israel can make that will make these hideously barbaric butchers like them. every concession will be followed with more violence and more demands. sorry, peace never comes from negotiations and weakness.

The Jews have a right to a nation. They do not need to be killed or hated. Unlike what some of the hate, I been hearing over the years. In the Palestinians already have a country its named Jorden. They can go back there in let the poor Jews have a country. It greatly sickings me to see so called Americans went to force those poor people off there land that they fighted for. Those people are the same people that where butchered by hitler durning world war 2. Have some mercy for a people. Leave Israel be. Please god.

In another thing is israel has Advanced more then the whole Middle east put together. In just 50 years. What doe's that say about the butchers that went to kill them. Heck the muslims flag have a thing on it showing pushing poor israel into the red sea. If America can't stand up for freedom living israel then America is done for.

They have been fighting for a long time. In the Palestinians have 95 percent of the middle east to go back to. Its time to give Israel a break!

If we allow small Israel to be murdered by there enemy that seeks for blood. In believe it or not 9-11 was not the start of this war. This war been going on for 800 years. They went to take over the world. In that is there goal. We must stand for whats right in we must not allow them to butcher Israel or any one else. We need to wake up before the Jews get murdered by the millions again.

Please god!!!


In one more thing rainstorm Arabs are not the the Problem. They can be anything. The Muslims are the ones we been fighting for the last 800 years or more.

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:The Jews have a right to a nation. They do not need to be killed or hated. Unlike what some of the crap I been hearing over the years. In the Palestinians already have a country its named Jorden. They can go back there in let the poor Jews have a country. It greatly sickings me to see so called Americans went to force those poor people off there land that they fighted for. Those people are the same people that where butchered by hitler durning world war 2. Have some mercy for a people. Leave Israel be. Please god.

In another thing is israel has Advanced more then the whole Middle east put together. In just 50 years. What doe's that say about the butchers that went to kill them. Heck the muslims flag have a thing on it showing pushing poor israel into the red sea. If America can't stand up for freedom living israel then America is done for.

They have been fighting for a long time. In the Palestinians have 95 percent of the middle east to go back to. Its time to give Israel a break!

If we allow small Israel to be murdered by there enemy that seeks for blood. In believe it or not 9-11 was not the start of this war. This war been going on for 800 years. They went to take over the world. In that is there goal. We must stand for whats right in we must not allow them to butcher Israel or any one else. We need to wake up before the Jews get murdered by the millions again.

Please god!!!


In one more thing rainstorm Arabs are not the the Problem. They can be anything. The Muslims are the ones we been fighting for the last 800 years or more.

Hate to burst your bubble MATTY, but Israel is advanced because of the U.S. not because of their own doing. Israel fought a war and won some land, then they took more and more.

What land. A little slice of land big deal out of the whole freaking middle east. They won it in that is fair like we won ours. Those people that went to murder the jews already have a nation.

Your maybe right about them getting stuff from us. But at least they went to Advance. Unlike the 7th centry piles of #$#$ around them.

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:What land. A little slice of land big deal out of the whole freaking middle east. They won it in that is fair like we won ours. Those people that went to murder the jews already have a nation.

Your maybe right about them getting stuff from us. But at least they went to Advance. Unlike the 7th centry piles of #$#$ around them.

wow, Israel is one of those piles of sh**, but if it weren't for the U.S.. They won a portion and stole the rest. Remember they drove the Palestinians farther east from the land they won. They only won a portion, but stole the rest.

Just some historical background information...

Early on, it was both the Arab and Jewish position that the Palestine region would become a Jewish state and the Arab state outside would live in peace with it.

The Feisal-Weizmann Agreement (1919)--which has been largely forgotten--declared, "The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding...

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto...

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine, all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government`s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917...

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil..."

Key points:

1) Separate reference to the "Arab state" and "Palestine"
2) Objective of carrying into fulfillment the Balfour Declaration that would create a Jewish state
3) A desire to increase Jewish immigration to what would become a Jewish state
4) Peace between the two states

If such an enlightened attitude prevailed in 1947, there would have been no 1948 war nor the tragic consequences that followed. Unfortunately, the Arab leadership under Grand Mufti Husseini took a hardline rejectionist attitude and refused any kind of compromises. In May 1948, when Israel's statehood was declared, the Arab states immediately launched an attack of wanton aggression aimed at destroying the infant Jewish state. In 2001, Yasser Arafat repeated Husseini's historic blunder and refused to accept President Clinton's enormously generous bridging proposal even as Prime Minister Barak had accepted it.

Today, some voices call for a single bi-national state. Such an idea would not be viable. Such a situation was evaluated both in 1937 (Peel Commission) and 1947 (UN Special Commission on Palestine) and found impractical. It is even more impractical today.

The Peel Commission found: "An irrepressible conflict has arisen between two national communities within the narrow bounds of one small country. There is no common ground between them. Their national aspirations are incompatible. The Arabs desire to revive the traditions of the Arab golden age. The Jews desire to show what they can achieve when restored to the land in which the Jewish nation was born. Neither of the two national ideals permits of combination in the service of a single State.

The conflict has grown steadily more bitter since 1920 and the process will continue."

The UN Special Committee on Palestine concluded: "The basic premise underlying the partition proposal is that the claims to Palestine of the Arabs and Jews, both possessing validity, are irreconcilable, and that among all of the solutions advanced, partition will provide the most realistic and practicable settlement, and is the most likely to afford a workable basis for meting in part the claims and national aspirations of both parties.

it is a fact that both of these peoples have their historic roots in Palestine, and that both make vital contributions to the economic and cultural life of the country. The partition solution takes these considerations fully into account."

In the aftermath of the terrorism of the Palestinian intifada, genocidal call by the Hamas terrorist group, and experience of the now almost microscopic Jewish minority in Arab states, such an idea is likely even more impractical than it was both in 1937 and 1947.

The forced creation of Israel was the first mistake in a long line of them by the United Nations. Now we deal with the aftereffcects of that horrible decision. Since Israel was created by the UN, they should have obeyed the mandates of the UN and should never have invaded Jordan and Egypt and kept the West Bank and Gaza.

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote: In the Palestinians already have a country its named Jorden. They can go back there in let the poor Jews have a country. It greatly sickings me to see so called Americans went to force those poor people off there land that they fighted for. Those people are the same people that where butchered by hitler durning world war 2. Have some mercy for a people. Leave Israel be. Please god.

They have been fighting for a long time. In the Palestinians have 95 percent of the middle east to go back to. Its time to give Israel a break!

How is Jordan the Palestinian's homeland? How is it that the Palestinians do or should "have 95 percent of the Middle East to go back to"? Just because people share distant bloodlines doesn't mean that they are one in the same, or that they should be willing or obligated to share their land with another people.

Think of it this way: I am guessing that you are largely of European descent - I am too. But do you consider yourself to be British or French or German or Polish? I don't - I consider myself American. I bet you do, too.

"Americans" (settlers of European descent) have only lived on this land for a couple hundred years, though - easily equal and probably much less than the ammount of time Palestinians spent living in Israel/Palestine. So why should we be allowed to establish an identity seperate from our ancestors, but they can't??? Why shouldn't they feel like the land their fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers occupied is theirs - we sure feel America is ours, don't we?

And if the Native Americans rose up tomorrow with UN backing and took America back, and assumed you could just go back to England or Germany, would you be satisfied?

Do you even think Europe would take us? I doubt it.

I understand that it is tempting to look at this issue as simple black and white, but its no such thing. Read a little bit about regional history and the background of this dispute, and you will see that. Its a much better route to take than calling everyone who tries to see both sides Nazi's.

There will never be true peace in that region in my life time...As a matter of fact not in my next life time either ...

feederband wrote:There will never be true peace in that region in my life time...As a matter of fact not in my next life time either ...

Ever since Isaac and Ishmael....

The best solution is to wall them all in together, drop in a load of weaponry, and let them fight it out for good.