STORM2K

We are thinking of buying a boat, about 36 foot to spend weekends on and cruise some islands around here. Does anyone know the average marina cost to dock, insurance for a year and other expenses. I wonder what it costs a year. Thanks.

**Raises hand** In the summertime, I am always on the beach or the islands.

My parents have a 40 foot sailboat too.

Since we are older and this would be our first boat, we want a smaller one. John would definately have to take lessions if we plan to cruise to different islands. I think it will be fun. If all goes well, we could always move up a bit in a couple years.

Yes, we have a boat. My family owns a fishing camp below Houma right near the Gulf of Mexico. And you got to take a boat to get to it. Our boat is probably close to 20 years old now. We bought it from my uncle. And we don't use it often at all. My brother also owns a boat. A pirouge type boat. It can only fit 3 people most. I have no idea what he payed for it.

Currently no, but in my past I've been surrounded by boat owners.

First - my dad. He had two before he passed on. He loved fishing so primarily that's why he bought his boats, both pulled skiers but they weren't fancy or anything.

Second - my ex and his brother shared a ski boat, it was an in-board. Seated 8. We had lots of fun on this boat, and often camped with my dad. Combined we had the two boats for weekends and shared the same campsite.

Third - my husband owned a ski boat when we first dated. When we planned our wedding, he decided to sell it and use the proceeds to pay for our Hawaii honeymoon. At the time, I didn't really care about having a boat again (non-swimmer here, I was usaully stuck with driving the boats) but later I could see how much he missed having one. So much so that for years we'd go for Sunday drives and always end up at a local lake, walking along the Marina there. He'd be looking at the boats and the kids would wanting to hit the snack shop. Later when we'd tell them we were going for a Sunday drive they'd groan - not to another lake?

Lastly he often says we may retire on a boat, sail boat this time. He longs for peaceful, open water experiences. Similar to what you're describing Janice. All I know is when I watch his Latitude and Longitude shows, I question if it's that peaceful - it looks like a TON of work!

And finally, be prepared for guests to never pitch in on food, drinks, or gas. With gas as high as it is now, that is something to consider. And my ex used to say - we insure a boat we can only use for 3 months! True.

If I'm ever a guest on someone's boat, I bring food and drinks. Something to repay the owner back - owning and maintaining a boat is expensive!

Happy Sailing!

Mary

I found this I'm not sure if this will give you a general idea of docking charges.
http://harbourislandmarina.com/dockage/dockcharges.html
Found this concerning insurance.
What about insurance?

If you're buying a boat larger than about 26 feet, you'll want a true Yacht Policy (it is always referred to as such). Yacht Policies differ from other types of insurance and it's generally not a good idea to insure your boat through the same company that insures your home or car.

Yacht Policies are underwritten by six or eight carriers, and placed through independent licensed agent. These agents are very knowledgeable about the different policies available, and can recommend the one that best suits your needs. Get competitive quotes from several different agents as rates vary significantly. Your broker and fellow boaters are good source of recommendations.

Competitive rates generally run about 1-3% of the value of the boat per year. The value of the boat is determined by what you paid for her, and verified by the marine survey report in conjunction with the BUC Guide whenever possible.

The normal deductible on a Yacht Policy is 1-2% of the stipulated valuation of the vessel.

You can insure almost any boat, including classic, multi hull, ultra-lights and racers, but rates will vary widely based on age and loss history. For example, sailboat base rates will be 15-20% less than powerboats, and expect to pay a slight premium paid for powerboats over 10 years old and sailboats over 15 years old. Make sure your policy provides coverage if your boat is damaged by an uninsured boater-Yacht Policies don't always provide this coverage.

Policies generally establish what waters the vessel will be covered in ("San Francisco Bay and Delta, for example). These are based on the boat's home port and are fairly standard across underwriters. If you want to cruise outside of the specified waters, you'll need an endorsement to do so. These vary in price depending on the distance and nature of the trip, and cost can range from nominal to prohibitive.

Janice,

Before you buy a boat, do a LOT of research. The answers to your questions are not simple, buying a boat is practically a course in itself!

The true cost of owning a boat (especially in the Caribbean) is not docking or insurance, it's upkeep. Ask any owner.

Having a boat here, versus in the mainland, are two very different situations; are parts available? how's the quality of labor, and is it readily available? For instance, plan on hauling the boat out of the water and repainting the hull every two years, to prevent sevious damage. Just the paint costs about $150 per gallon. Good marine varnish for wood, that will last more than two months in our heat and UV rays, without having to sand and recoat, costs that much, too.

Some friends of mine recently bought a Heritage brand trawler, brand spanking new. They put it under charter management, to help recover some of their costs. Before they arrived from US to take it out on it's first trip, the charter company spent 7 weeks working on it, to do all the things that weren't done at the factory. Now, 4 months later, it's still missing "Y" valve on the ,eh-hem, sewage system, to bypass and prevent it clogging and going through the bilge. (no sewage pumpout stations down here) Hard to believe the factory didn't install them, all charter boats have them. Nobody seemed to realize this until the toilets all backed up during the cruise, and into the bilge. Nobody wants to be sleeping in a sewer, so they came in early after only 5 days, and pumped the whole thing out. Point being, experienced charter company, already having several of the same model, had no idea those valves weren't there, until a problem arose. These kind of things happen, and they cost money to resolve.

I read in a book or magazine one time, that if you buy a boat over that's over 10yrs old, or less but having been in charter (i.e a 'rental'), have the same amount in savings to pay for upkeep, dockage, hauling, insurance, etc. If it's new, have 1/5 the cost in savings.

Until Hurricane Ivan plowed across Grenada and destroyed hundreds of boats, the insurance companies were happy making owners take their boats south of 12.5N by June 15 to be covered for hurricane damage. I'm not sure WHAT they are doing now, check out the very latest trend, and read the fine print. Your policy may require you to have the boat somewhere far, far away for 6 months of the year, to be insured against hurricanes. And they may not cover it if it's hauled out in a yard in PR.

You can lease boats now, just like cars. Charter management is another good option, if you don't mind either planning when you want the boat, or taking it on short notice when it's not chartered. The advantage is the charter company is responsible for all repairs and upkeep, usually for an agreed amount.

If you know someone who has a boat in your area, and is very satisfied and experienced, that's a gold mine of information. Take them to dinner often, and include good wine.

Don't be daunted, but be willing to do all the learning before you buy. Operating it out on the water is about 5% of what you'll need to learn, that's the easy part. Best of luck to you!! Hope you are having a great time, very soon!

Wow, thanks for all the great info. I was not aware of a lot of it and will check into it all. Janice

Wow, are you an origionally from your island or have you moved there? How do you like island living. We have what it seems like been here forever, 20 years total. We are origionally from California and Iowa. We will probably retire here, hubby has 8 more years to make 30 max for retirement.

We are aware they are an expensive venture.

I did have a 1967 Chrysler. That was a boat, but probably not the kind you're looking at.

I hear the second best day in a mans life is the day he bought a boat. The best day in a mans life is the day he sold the darn boat!

CajunMama wrote:I hear the second best day in a mans life is the day he bought a boat. The best day in a mans life is the day he sold the darn boat!

CM - too funny.

You should have heard the grief my hubby took when he said he sold his boat to pay for our honeymoon. And I didn't even ask him to do this. He offered and said how about Hawaii? How could I say no? LOL

I forgot to add two more relatives with decades of boating experince. My brother had a houseboat for about 20 years and actually lived on the Ohio River. He had two favorite marina's, depending upon the season. One was better for winter, another was better for summer. He loved his houseboat and that lifestyle - carefree, relaxed, partying too. Eventually he remarried and within 5 years, he sold it and moved full time to his wife's home (near the river). We've often asked him if he misses his boat and living on the river - no, no way, he says. Too much work, not sleeping whent he river rose, etc. But if it does rise suddenly, where do you think he is - at his old marina, pitching in and helping other boaters who he became friends with. He removed the boat but couldn't quite take the boating lifestyle away either.

My father-in-law has had boats for about 30 years. He just sold his last boat this past year - a Grand Banks houseboat. A beautiful boat with teak interiors. We had the whole family on it a few tiimes on Kentucky Lake. He often brought it up the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. But he's 83 now and it was time to sell it. We've asked him if he misses it and his answer is always the same as my brother's - no, no way, too much work! Guests can enjoy themselves but the owner is always cleaning something or checking the engine, pumps, etc.

Mary

Janice wrote:... are you an origionally from your island or have you moved there? How do you like island living.

Janice, no I'm a "transplant" like many others. Almost everyone I know is working on boats, or with boats every day, they are just major part of life here. I thought I knew something about boats before I moved here, now I REALLY have learned that I don't know ANYTHING!!

CajunMama wrote:I hear the second best day in a mans life is the day he bought a boat. The best day in a mans life is the day he sold the darn boat!

CM, that is tooo funny. But also, from everything I've heard, quite often the fact.

BOAT = "Bust Out Another Thousand" ...And if you have to ask "How Much?" you cannot afford it!

i have a 17.5 ft Center Console Power Boat; a small Laser 2 Sailboat; have owned a Hobie 16.....

i grew up sailing in Florida when i was 9 and work for a spar manufacturing company in the US now.

When it comes to boats most of the advice above is true. Estimate what it will cost to either "outfit" a new boat or "restore" an old one and then double the estimate. Boats are money pits.

Money aside the main concern with boating is SAFETY. You MUST know what you are doing and how to operate the vessel. Lost finger tips, lost limbs, etc are all possibilities not to mention the obvious ones of drowning, fire, etc....Even experienced sailors/captains have succomed to the sea. All it takes is one wrong decision.

A boat is like a machine. There are many different systems that come into play. Plumbing, electrical, etc. One needs to be proficient in all of these in order to navigate a successful journey. Add to that being an amateur meteorologist is a MUST and knowing how to read a chart as well as use a sextant for navigation (I would not rely solely on GPS instruments).

A boating safety course is a MUST and if the goal is a sailboat one should take an Offshore sailing class. You may go to this link for some ideas:

http://www.offshore-sailing.com I noticed there is not one in Puerto Rico but there is one in Tortola.

This is another good one: http://www.bwss.com/offshore.html

I am not trying to discourage you by any means...boats are wonderful! Although too much nowadays i see people who have no sense whatsoever and have no business whatsoever being on the water! My common complaint is that you have to get a driver's license/take a test to operate a motor vehicle. but in the US anyone with enough $$$$ can buy a boat!

I have seen many that after one summer of sailing classes they buy a boat that is far more than they can handle SAFELY...running into the dock...not knowing the rules of the road...not only is it dangerous but it also tends to not rest favorably on the boat owner either. It can lead to frustration as well as added cost (both emotional and financial if the boat/people are damaged...or worse). Especially around where you live where there are numerous reefs!

I would suggest a subscription to this magazine which is geared toward those cruising in sailboats and is a wealth of knowledge. (Cruising World---not Sailing World as that is geared toward racers )

http://www.cruisingworld.com/index.jsp

and also SAIL magazine (I have a subscription to both of these myself)

http://www.sailmag.com/

Both of these magazines might give you a better idea of what you are getting into.

A book that would make for good reading is:

Chapman Piloting - Seamanship and Boat Handling...and they offer a course as well.

http://www.chapman.org/

Please do not think i am trying to discourage you Janice....it is just that "The sea is no place for the inexperienced" and even highly experienced people have set out and not returned.

a couple more points....

1) When on a boat one must not whistle because you are "Whistling for the Wind" to appear - not ALWAYS a good thing i.e. a Gale

and 2) It is bad luck to rename a boat (there is one thing that must be done if the name is changed that will not make it bad luck but it cannot be mentioned on this forum )

Sailors (and boaters in general) are superstitious folks!!!!

NEWS FLASH!

Janice, pick up a copy of All At Sea, a free monthly magazine in the Caribbean all about sailing, etc. They have an article this month about, guess what? "Buying A Boat", and includes a bunch of information on slip costs, alternative docking, etc. You will find it very useful, I think!

Thanks. I ordered a Living Onboard magazine and it basically told everything too. We still have a couple years to think about it.

Now you're talkin' ...this is what I do everyday, well at least until August 1st when I transfer.

First you have to identify what is you're really wanting to do and what you need the boat for...

If this is a "seasonal" thing...perhaps you're best bet is to join one of those clubs where for a nominal fee, you have access to a boat in the same manner as one would utilize a time-share property. Buying a boat is rather large investment and it's best to "test the waters" if you may, before making the jump to own a boat.

But if you're really looking to buy a boat...then...

I would recommend buying a 25' to 36' GRP (fiberglass). The final length depends on how far offshore you're looking to go...obviously the further offshore, the slighter larger vessel would be the better choice. It has a lot to do with center of buoyancy, center of gravity, righting arm and roll period. A GRP hull is extremely buoyant...buoyancy is the effect of the water pushing UP on the hull and the gravity is the force pushing down on the hull. When these two forces interact, it causes the boat to roll side to side. How fast the boat rolls from left to right, then return to even keel is called your roll period. In most cases, a longer boat means a wider beam (width) and the wider the beam, the longer the roll period. A shorter roll period means the boat is going to snap back to it's trimmed position and a day of this jerking motion makes for a bad trip.

Also, the advantage of GRP is maintenance. Fiberglass is easy to repair when compared to wood or aluminum...no different than repair a surfboard...laying on the strips of glass fiber and coating with resin - pretty basic stuff. An aluminum hull you have to gas-free (for gasoline engine w/ installed tanks) or you have to remove foam in the welding area. Wood - that a can of worms I don't recommend going near...marine grade, treated wood is expensive and the skill required to make repairs is hard to come by, not to mention labor-intensive.

Ok...lesson in hull design is over...now for operation.

Obviously I'm partial to vessels operating under power...I hate sailboats. Sailboats are great if you have the time to learn, but it takes a while to fully master the skill. Being on the water during peak boating season is not the time for hands-on training - proficiency is key. Boats aren't like cars, there are no brakes, and that is most obvious with a sailboat.

For basic boat operations, recommend taking a Coast Guard Auxiliary Boating Course...they will teach you everything you need to know about required safety gear, navigation, radio communications, and they'll even inspect your vessel for compliance with all applicable federal regulations. Many states offer the same types of courses through their respective Department of Natural Resources offices.

Costs (I'm going to lay out what I have to contend with on a daily basis):

1. The boat itself
2. Registration (State)/documentation (Federal) This depends on the size of the boat
3. Insurance
4. Towboat U.S./SeaTow/ Boat U.S. etc...$100 or so (annual membership) and they'll come getcha if you breakdown and need a tow...without it, last I checked, it was on average $60.00 an hour, plus fuel, and a $300 charge once lines are made fast to your boat...Belive me when I say get the insurance - I been on towing cases that have last 14 hours. Towing takes a long time...first they have to get on scene, then hook up tow, then tow you back to the dock. Towing speed is brutally slow and is figured as follows: (Square root of waterline length) X 1.06 - 10% for safety...so, for example a 28' boat with a 25' waterline has a safe towing speed of approximately 5 knots, or 5 nautical miles per hour - if you run out 10 miles and then north 30 miles, you're looking at 8 hours of towing back, not to mention search time and fuel.
5. Boat trailer
6. Spare parts: Spark plugs, filters, light bulbs, spare parts for the trailer (bearing buddies, etc)
7. Boat outfit: anchor, anchor line, mooring line, fire extinguisher, paddles (no, you're not going to get far paddling a 30' boat - but they make great depth indicators when you're running in unfamiliar or unmarked territory. And if you do find yourself aground, you can push yourself off).
8. Electronics: I am a big believer in a DSC (Digital Selective Calling) VHF-FM radio...first of all, don't think you're ok with just a cell phone, the minute you go offshore, you lose coverage - invest in a VHF-FM w/ DSC...AND REGISTER THE DSC...there's the equivalent of a panic button on the radio that you can push and you're REGISTERED boat name or hull number is passed to CG ground station along with your latitude and longitude in the event you find yourself in trouble. While I'm on electronics...they're a bit pricey, but if you're going to island-hop - invest in an EPIRB, but make sure you register it.
9. Safety gear: CG-approved Life jackets, Type IV throwable PFD, soundproducing devise, flares if you're offshore, etc.
10. If you decide to buy a used boat, recommend hiring a marine surveyor - same process as a home inspection. I've seen many cases where a boat split in half because the hull was dry-rotted and the new owner claims "I just bought it last week."

I see someone already answered your dock space/slip fee question, or at least provided a link...those vary by location so it's going to take a little planning.

CHAPMAN's PILOTING...excellent book. First book I bought when I returned from CG Basic Training and still use to this day even though I'm a LT...excellent resource, especially for the beginning boater.

It also wouldn't hurt to find a copy of NAVRULs...There's plenty online...Boat US even offers an online NAVRULs test.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm

Another great resource that we use to teach our new CG crewmembers the "essentials" is the Boat Crew Seamanship Manual:

http://www.uscg.mil/ccs/cit/cim/directives/CIM/CIM_16114_5C.pdf

This is by no means an all-inclusive list... but hope some of my info helped...I could go for about a week about buying a boat, so if you have a specific question, feel free to ask or IM or shoot up a flare, etc.

An remember...if you get in trouble out there...VHF-FM Channel 16 is your INTERNATIONAL DISTRESS and HAILING freq...and remember the 3 P's!!!

People (number passengers on boat)
Position (Latitude/Longitude)
PFD's (put them on!!)