STORM2K

Some countries ARE grateful for U.S. and U.K. help...The Netherlands is reportedly sending 5,100 troops as part of a peacekeeping force to Iraq.

This is in addition to the unprecedented Japanese contingent being sent there; according to Japanese law, its troops were to be used only for defense of the home islands, and its fleet was restricted to no more than 1,000 km from the Japanese homeland, before the new law removing such restrictions was passed.

Meanwhile, the French and Germans are, as expected, doing nothing. The Germans are being somewhat benign and silent on this issue, while France is being arrrogantly adamant in not supporting troop deployments.

Glad to see our true allies helping us out, especially the new law from Japan.

That is great news about the Dutch and the Japanese!
Good for them to help out not only their Allies, but also to help bring some humanitarian aid to the people of Iraq.

I agree, it's nice to hear that other countries are helping. Once we (not us per se but the all countries) stop fighting each other to help each other instead, good will come. Just think of the technolgy and innovation of all these great countries put together. It's not world peace by any means, but it's a step in the right direction. I would love to see it in my lifetime.

mrschad,

As laudable as universal peace would be, as long as mankind exists, with all the greed, corruption, avarice, madness and hatred of which we are capable...it won't happen.

streetsoldier wrote:mrschad,

As laudable as universal peace would be, as long as mankind exists, with all the greed, corruption, avarice, madness and hatred of which we are capable...it won't happen.

The song "Imagine" just came to mind. It's something to work towards, that's for sure, but there are too many "variables" that will ultimately prevent it from happening 100% I'm afraid. However, we need to try.

That is a great song by John Lennon Steph!! IF ONLY.....

Lindaloo wrote:That is a great song by John Lennon Steph!! IF ONLY.....

Yes it is.

I heard a news report tonight from Iraq of medical personnel who are
there to help and their interviews were interesting:
- they said there is a growing ''political undercurrent' from the locals which is
very negative. They won't allow in medical supplies, deals go bad, deals are
broken and supply trucks are left half unpacked since workers stop and
demand more money or leave.
- Everyone is on the 'take'.
- They're saying they think we could be there for at least 3 years with the
same conditions with the locals, etc.

We discussed post-conflict Iraq many months ago and I recall different
speculation regarding this whole situation. What does everyone think now?

I heard that Saddam's Iraq would be better associated with organized crime, with Saddam as "Don Corleone", but much more vicious.

OK, we've removed much of the "cosa nostra", Saddam's "consiglieri" and two chief "tenientes"...perhaps the "Capo di tutti fruitti" himself soon. The spurious "stability" of mob-style "government" is not far from the minds of the average Iraqi, much less its methodology, as you have so astutely noted.

This, added to the "clan/tribal" mentality and rather backward, 7th Century C.E. observance of Islam as practiced there, is not going to "disappear" soon; and bringing these people up to any cognizant standard of popular vote, democracy, market economy, etc., is going to take considerably more time, and effort, than anyone (Bush I, Clinton or Bush II) projected.

I am not convinced that Democracy is the correct model for middle eastern states, whose culture seems to be more amenable to kings, caliphs, theocracies, and other types of "top down" govts. What's the chance that democracy would really take root there? While I supported the war 110%, and don't think we need to "find" the WMD's to justify it, the aftermath is uncertain. In the US, people learn from elementary school about elections, peaceful protest, etc. We see how our democracy works and we internalize it. How can we change the thinking of an entire population in such a short time, when all they have seen is dictators, fear, and retribution, especially if we are viewed suspiciously by much of the population? We had an external enemy that united us. They had internal enemies that divided them. To some, the US is the external enemy! Many of the "democratically elected" govt's that we installed didn't turn out too well. We can't go in there and hold up the American founding fathers. The same goes for Afghanistan. This is a dilemma for sure, and will require good ideas and perseverance.

It's nice to see more countries step forward. Our nephew is in Iraq, serving with the 101st. Initially he thought he'd be sent home sometime between August and definitely by December. Now it's official - he'll be coming home in February. Which makes his tour of duty over there, almost a year. My family took the news hard but he's one brave and positive young man. He's still very proud to serve his country. And now he's re-enlisting!

Kris described the most deplorable conditions when they first arrived to us. How these poor people had to live, while Saddam and his family/friends/men lived it up in luxury. He was once so upset on the phone with his wife, she said she couldn't hear anymore, since we of course over here can't imagine living in such conditions. I've written him and told him to tell me *anything*, I think I can take it. If I can take the image of Saddam putting people in wood chippers, well, you can almost bear anything else.

Well, I'm rambling. Forgive me! This topic brought a smile this morning and made me proud my nephew is over there. Although of course we want him home too!!!!