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Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:25 am
by x-y-no
Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has declared emergency rule and suspended the country's constitution.
Troops have been deployed inside state-run TV and radio stations, while independent channels have gone off air.
Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, who condemned the moves, has reportedly been sacked and is being confined to the Supreme Court with 10 other judges.
It comes as the court was due to rule on the legality of Gen Musharraf's re-election victory in October.
The Court was to decide whether Gen Musharraf was eligible to run for election last month while remaining army chief.
The BBC's Barbara Plett reports from Islamabad that fears have been growing in the government that the Supreme Court ruling could go against Gen Musharraf.
'Phone lines down'
Pakistan has been engulfed in political upheaval in recent months, and the security forces have suffered a series of blows from pro-Taleban militants opposed to Gen Musharraf's support for the US-led "war on terror".
Pakistan's Cabinet is currently meeting to approve Gen Musharraf's declaration of emergency rule. He is expected to address the nation later.
A leading lawyer and opposition figure, Aitzaz Ahsan, told reporters that he had been detained as the emergency powers were invoked.
"They have served me a detention order for 30 days," Mr Ahsan, president of the Supreme Court Bar Association, was quoted by Reuters as saying.
"One man has taken entire nation hostage... Time has come for General Musharraf to go."
Land and mobile telephone lines are down in Islamabad, reports say.
Private channels Geo News and Dawn News earlier quoted unnamed sources as saying the government had made up its mind to declare emergency rule. Shortly afterwards they came off air.
Parliamentary elections are due in January - it is not clear whether they will go ahead.
Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, who recently returned to the country after years of self-exile to lead her party in the elections, is currently in Dubai on a personal visit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7076670.stmIt's interesting to note that Bhutto left the country yesterday and is refusing to comment on this development. That kind of suggests that at least she knew about it in advance and possibly agrees to it.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:55 am
by cycloneye
Below are the four most important things that are occuring at this time with the martial law declared by Musharraf.
Emergency rule declared, constitution suspended, Chief Justice expelled
Troops enter Supreme Court, court declares emergency illegal
Ex-PM Benazir Bhutto said to be returning to Pakistan from Dubai
Most media channels off the air due to an apparent media blackouthttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/1 ... index.htmlThe question is,how will this state of emergency or martial law situation affects the U.S./ Pakistan relations.
Note=I didnt saw the new thread for the Pakistan situation,so from now on all the information about the Pakistan state of emmergency can be posted there.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:53 pm
by BUD
This scares the crap out of me knowing this "can" and most likely will happen some day in the U.S.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:08 pm
by feederband
BUD wrote:This scares the crap out of me knowing this "can" and most likely will happen some day in the U.S.
What Martial Law?
Sometimes it is needed...
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:24 pm
by Hybridstorm_November2001
If Pakistan collapses this could spell big trouble; first for the NATO troops in Afghanistan, then perhaps for the wider region, and of course their always is the "who gets custody of the nuclear weapons" issue.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:39 pm
by Hybridstorm_November2001
feederband wrote:BUD wrote:This scares the crap out of me knowing this "can" and most likely will happen some day in the U.S.
What Martial Law?
Sometimes it is needed...
Martial Law is a suspension of a country of territory’s normal civil law enforcement operations. Most ever nation has at least some prevision for its use. It basically means than any type of legal frame work within which said operations occur, can be temporarily suspended in cases where those that have the mechanisms to do so deem that the situation warrants it. Usually it is used only in extreme cases as a stop gap measure after it is determined that the usual methods for maintaining civil order have broken down, and that extraordinary steps must be taken to restore that civil order; e.g. if usual law enforcement methods of affording criminal suspects due process and evidence levels needed for incarceration are seen as getting in the way of removing disruptive elements from the streets, it can be used to bypass said requirements and round up people and imprison them indefinitely.
The below link contains a good example of a case in a Western Country (Canada) where such a action was deemed necessary to end a crisis, though if it was truly the only answer is still debated in certain circles to this very day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:57 pm
by Derek Ortt
don't want to get too political
but it is far better to have this than the Taliban and Al Queda taking control of Pakistan, and their nukes
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:06 pm
by Hybridstorm_November2001
I'm certain most Western leaders would say yes it is. Most Pakistanis on the other hand would say no it isn't. Take it from there.
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:12 pm
by Hybridstorm_November2001
BTW The most popular public figures in Pakistani public opinion polls tend to be Osama Bin Landen and Ayman al-Zawahiri. Keep that in mind in regards to the subject of true unfretted democracy in Pakistan. Much like Palestine recently, those of us in the West might not like the results of such a social experiment.
Re:
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:16 pm
by Cryomaniac
Derek Ortt wrote:don't want to get too political
but it is far better to have this than the Taliban and Al Queda taking control of Pakistan, and their nukes
I agree, although my opinion of Musharaff is hardly positive.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:15 am
by Chacor
What I posted to a BBC discussion on this:
Did no one really not see this coming when Musharraf "agreed" to step down as army chief? They say 'boys will be boys', well, dictators will always be dictators, power-hungry corrupts. Gen. Musharraf is no different.
I removed one bit about American interests in case that's overly political.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:08 am
by Squarethecircle
Interestingly enough, not only have I lived here, but I'm doing a report on it. We got really screwed up, because now, who knows what Musharraf will change in a month (that's when it's due). This can't end well, but seeing as Pakistan is not particularly hostile towards anyone (strike India), one must admit that far worse things could have happened.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:07 pm
by gtalum
The US's support of this action should put to rest the myth that "Bringing democracy to Iraq" has anything to do with our actions in the middle east.
Re:
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:10 pm
by feederband
gtalum wrote:The US's support of this action should put to rest the myth that "Bringing democracy to Iraq" has anything to do with our actions in the middle east.
Huh..... Some of the news reports I see this morning are saying the adminstation does not support this action...
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:16 pm
by HURAKAN
Administration Weighs Pakistan OptionsBy ANNE GEARAN – 2 hours ago
RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — President Bush's top national security aides say U.S. financial backing for Pakistan's counterterrorism efforts likely will go uninterrupted despite the administration's unhappiness with President Pervev Musharraf's declaration of a state of emergency.
The White House said Bush would comment Monday on the crisis.
"The best option is for Pakistan to get back on its path to democracy," press secretary Dana Perino told reporters, echoing statements that administration officials had made throughout the weekend.
Discussing the problem Monday while in Ramallah, West Bank, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice exhorted Musharraf to sever his affiliation with the army and restore civilian rule.
Full Story__________________________________________________________________________________
White House 'deeply disturbed' by Pakistan actionby Mark Silva
“The government of the United States is deeply disturbed’’ by the declaration of emergency rule in Pakistan, the White House said today. “Such actions are not in Pakistan’s best interest,’’ White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.
The White House is “urging (Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf) to quickly get back to civilian rule… to get back on the path to democracy,’’ she said – though at this time President Bush still had not spoken with Musharraf personally.
Full Story
Re: Re:
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:36 am
by gtalum
feederband wrote:Huh..... Some of the news reports I see this morning are saying the adminstation does not support this action...
Regardless of what the administration says,
they have decided to continue sending billions of dollars worth of aid to the Pakistani military, of whom Musharraf is in charge. Politicians can and do say whatever they want. It's their actions that we need to follow.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:17 am
by Hybridstorm_November2001
Indeed as I always like to say; words are meaningless in the final analysis only actions matter.
Re: Martial Law in Pakistan
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:02 am
by artist
so if it were to fall to the taliban and al queda that would be a democracy? I also have a bridge I would love to sell ya!
Re: Re:
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:12 am
by feederband
I think our intrest lies in those nukes they have...We feel half way safe with Musarraf in charge of them...We and the other country's in the area are scared if his rivals were to get them...
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:18 pm
by x-y-no
To be fair, I don't know that our administration has much choice but to take the cautious approach they have so far. Any immediate cutoff of funds would likely precipitate some sort of coup and God knows what we'd get then.
We have to hope that this will blow over in the next few months and the deal which appeared to be in place with Bhutto is revived.