TD INGRID: Discussions & Images - Last Advisory

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seaswing
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1141 Postby seaswing » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:41 pm

mattpetre wrote:
HurricaneRobert wrote:Isn't that a similar track to Chris (2006)? Why is it such a dead zone north of the islands? Of course I fully expect a hurricane out of this since the 'I' letter is cursed. It simply wouldn'tve worked for that thing in the GOM.


That thing in the Gulf is quite possibly about to be a major problem for many people caught off guard though. Heck 3 days before Dean hit the Yucatan we had signs on the freeways saying to gas up and that a hurricane was forming in the gulf. I wish people had been a bit more bullish on that thing in the gulf 2 or 3 days ago.


I was just thinking the same thing! Texas has been innundated already with water
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1142 Postby windstorm99 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:42 pm

Herbert box has been added to the models....

Image
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1143 Postby gatorcane » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:44 pm

For all those that don't know what the Hebert box is....if TD 8 makes it to the Herbert box, the chances of a South Florida strike increase based on historical data and climatology.

Note --- it is not guaranteed but the chances do go up.
Last edited by gatorcane on Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1144 Postby seaswing » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:44 pm

windstorm99 wrote:Herbert box has been added to the models....

Image


Is that an indication from NHC that this could be more of a Florida event?
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#1145 Postby chris_fit » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:44 pm

Big northern shift on the GFDL huh?
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Re:

#1146 Postby windstorm99 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:45 pm

chris_fit wrote:Big northern shift on the GFDL huh?


Nope...Thats the HWRF.
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Re: Re:

#1147 Postby gtsmith » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:46 pm

robbielyn wrote:
gtsmith wrote:My anxiety/concern/trepidation stems from the fact that on Saturday I leave (South East Florida) my wife and mother in law for 10 days and am going to New England. I am really concerned about leaving them alone if this storm threatens the West Palm area. I guess I can always come back next week if it indeed does begin to threaten my area (it''l cost me money in rescheduling my airline and my rental car is non refundable - but it's just money)...yeesh...I'll be the only one trying to get into an area that may be threatened :roll:

Could they possibly stay with friends or family somewhere within the state or ga or alabama or something where you wouldn't have to worry so much? It is always good to have an escape route in place should a storm threaten


There is family around them, and friends, but I hate to leave them...they count on me quite a bit.
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#1148 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:46 pm

Most of the models seem to want this to go :fishing: now...but wouldn't the ridge bounce it back westward if it tried to turn north that soon?
Last edited by CrazyC83 on Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1149 Postby Weatherfreak000 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:46 pm

Things are indeed looking quite interesting.

This weekend is going to be crucial towards determining whether this will be a Caribbean storm or an Atlantic SFL to EC Threat.


Either way, it's one rollercoaster ride after the other.
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Re:

#1150 Postby gatorcane » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:47 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:Most of the models seem to want this to go :fishing: now...but wouldn't the ridge bounce it back westward if it tried to turn north that soon?


the system keeps moving WNW....I wonder what the NHC will do to its cone this afternoon....?

any ideas?
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1151 Postby KWT » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:48 pm

The models are really flipping all over the place right now, if I remember correctly the 06z runs had this system heading much further south with most showing a track towards the Leeward islands.

Note that most of them bend back westward at the end as the ridge strengthens, thats very bad for the EC as theres no land to weaken it and then we'd be needing either shear to weaken it or a trough to catch and send it out to sea.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1152 Postby StJoe » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:48 pm

For all who were wondering what the heck the "Hebert Box" was, here you go. :D

............................... Many people visiting hurricanecity have asked "what is this hebert box I keep hearing about"?. The HebertBox was "discovered" in the late 1970s by Paul Hebert (pictured at left). This former nws & nhc forecaster found many major Hurricanes that hit South Florida had to first pass through these boxes. The first box is located east of Puerto Rico and the second box is located over the Cayman Islands. Every Major Hurricane that passed through Box 2 late in the year, hit the Florida peninsula prior to 1950. Hebert says that a Hurricane does not have to pass through these boxes to hit, but if they do "you better pay attention". The 1935 Labor day Hurricane that devastated the Florida Keys developed west of this box and Hurricane Andrew passed NE of this box, so there are exceptions to the rule.
This image shows the two Hebert boxes. If Floridians want an indication of a possible hit they need to keep an eye on any hurricane that passes through these boxes. Nearly every major Hurricane that hit S Florida since 1900 passed through these boxes. When major Hurricanes miss these boxes,they virtually always miss South Florida. If a major Hurricane moves into these boxes South Florida really needs to watch out. These boxes approx 335 miles x 335 miles includes the Virgin Islands but not Puerto Rico. The pattern has proven accurate for 9 out of 10 storms storms that developed & hit Dade,Broward & Palm Bch Counties. The following is a list showing Hurricanes that passed through these Boxes,starting with Box #1.
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Re:

#1153 Postby windstorm99 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:49 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:Most of the models seem to want this to go :fishing: now...but wouldn't the ridge bounce it back westward if it tried to turn north that soon?


Not sure which model youre looking at but the only thats seeing a fish is the clips model which we all know what that is.
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Re: Re:

#1154 Postby chris_fit » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:49 pm

windstorm99 wrote:
chris_fit wrote:Big northern shift on the GFDL huh?


Nope...Thats the HWRF.



Doh! I was actually looking at the Dark Blue, which is the UKMET. I was thinking it was the GFDL. GFDL is blue on another model map right? Haha... Oopsie!
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1155 Postby AnnularCane » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:50 pm

The NOGAPS looks completely lost. :lol:

How accurate is that "Hebert Box" theory? Even if it moves it through that area, it looks like there would still be plenty of room to recurve enough to miss FL.
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Re: Re:

#1156 Postby DESTRUCTION5 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:51 pm

chris_fit wrote:
windstorm99 wrote:
chris_fit wrote:Big northern shift on the GFDL huh?


Nope...Thats the HWRF.



Doh! I was actually looking at the Dark Blue, which is the UKMET. I was thinking it was the GFDL. GFDL is blue on another model map right? Haha... Oopsie!



Even that don't say fish..It bends back West at the end..
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1157 Postby BUD » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:51 pm

This may do a Flody (99) type track.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1158 Postby gatorcane » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:51 pm

StJoe wrote:For all who were wondering what the heck the "Hebert Box" was, here you go. :D

............................... Many people visiting hurricanecity have asked "what is this hebert box I keep hearing about"?. The HebertBox was "discovered" in the late 1970s by Paul Hebert (pictured at left). This former nws & nhc forecaster found many major Hurricanes that hit South Florida had to first pass through these boxes. The first box is located east of Puerto Rico and the second box is located over the Cayman Islands. Every Major Hurricane that passed through Box 2 late in the year, hit the Florida peninsula prior to 1950. Hebert says that a Hurricane does not have to pass through these boxes to hit, but if they do "you better pay attention". The 1935 Labor day Hurricane that devastated the Florida Keys developed west of this box and Hurricane Andrew passed NE of this box, so there are exceptions to the rule.
This image shows the two Hebert boxes. If Floridians want an indication of a possible hit they need to keep an eye on any hurricane that passes through these boxes. Nearly every major Hurricane that hit S Florida since 1900 passed through these boxes. When major Hurricanes miss these boxes,they virtually always miss South Florida. If a major Hurricane moves into these boxes South Florida really needs to watch out. These boxes approx 335 miles x 335 miles includes the Virgin Islands but not Puerto Rico. The pattern has proven accurate for 9 out of 10 storms storms that developed & hit Dade,Broward & Palm Bch Counties. The following is a list showing Hurricanes that passed through these Boxes,starting with Box #1.



Excellent summary so for those in Florida....although the system is still 7-9 days away...in the short-term we can see if it makes it into this Hebert box. If it does I think our level of concern can rightfully increase.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1159 Postby sfwx » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:52 pm

000
FXUS62 KMLB 121835
AFDMLB

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MELBOURNE FL
235 PM EDT WED SEP 12 2007


.DISCUSSION...

RIDGE LOCATED OVER CENTRAL PENINSULA WITH A MINIMA OF CONVECTION
CURRENTLY ACROSS THIS REGION AND STORM MOVEMENT SLOWLY INLAND/NW
ACROS SOUTHERN THIRD OF CWA AND SLOWLY SEAWARD/NE ACROSS NORTHERN
THIRD. WITH NUMEROUS BOUNDARIES EVIDENT ON SATELLITE/RADAR AND MOIST
ATMOSPHERE COMPRISED OF PRECIPITABLE WATER VALUES NEAR 2 INCHES...
EXPECTED CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT OF SCATTERED STORMS ACROSS CWA
THROUGH THE AFTERNOON. ISOLATED STORMS WILL LINGER INTO THE
EARLY/MID EVENING...WITH HIGHEST COVERAGE ACROSS NORTHERN CWA AND
MOVEMENT TOWARDS AND OFFSHORE THE EAST COAST. MIN TEMPS GENERALLY
3-4 DEGREES ABOVE CLIMO.

THU-SAT...DEEP LAYER RIDGE WILL DRIFT NORTH AND WEAKEN THROUGH THE
LATE WEEK BEFORE A STRONG SHORT WAVE PUSHES INTO THE EASTERN STATES
ON SATURDAY...WITH ASSOCIATED COLD FRONT DIVING INTO THE SE U.S.
POPS WILL REMAIN SCATTERED THURS AND FRI BUT WITH COVERAGE EXPECTED
TO DECREASE SLIGHTLY EACH DAY WITH SOME LOWER PWAT AIR MOVING INTO
THE REGION. POPS MAY BEGIN TO TREND BACK UP SATURDAY BUT WILL NEED
TO WATCH TIMING OF FRONTAL APPROACH AND RETURN OF HIGHER PWAT AIR.
WILL NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES TO CURRENT SCT POPS.

SUN-WED...FLOW OVER EC FL EXPECTED TO REMAIN EASTERLY SUNDAY WITH
FRONT WEAKENING TO THE NORTH. 12Z GFS STARTING TO SHOW SOME
CONSISTENCY WITH SHORTWAVE DEVELOPING INTO A CUTOFF LOW OVER THE
ATLANTIC OFF THE SE U.S. COAST EARLY IN THE WEEK WITH SURFACE WAVE
DEVELOPING. IF THIS SCENARIO OCCURS...EC FL WILL BE IN A MORE DRY
AND SUBSIDENT REGION TO THE WEST OF THE CUTOFF WITH SURFACE WINDS
BACKING TO NELY THROUGH THE EARLY AND MID WEEK. CURRENT ZONES AND
GRIDS ALREADY INDICATING THIS SCENARIO WITH POPS TRENDING DOWN TO
ISOLATED SHOWERS LATE IN THE FORECAST PERIOD WHICH STILL LOOKS ON
TRACK.

&&

.AVIATION...SCATTERED STORMS OVER SE CWA WILL CONTINUE TO SLOWLY
WORK INLAND AND LESSEN CHANCE FOR MVFR CONDITIONS AT KVRB. STORM
MOTION WILL BE SLOWER NEAR KMLB AND MVFR/IFR PERIOD OF STORMS WILL
LIKELY PERSIST INTO MID/LATE AFTERNOON. STORM MOVEMENT NORTH OF THE
CAPE WILL BE NE AND SEVERAL STORMS FROM THE INTERIOR WILL MOVE
NEAR/TO KDAB THROUGH LATE AFTERNOON/EARLY EVENING. PERIOD OF LATE
AFTERNOON MVFR STORMS ALSO POSSIBLE OVER INTERIOR TAF SITES. WIND
GUSTS NEAR 35KT POSSIBLE NEAR STRONGEST CONVECTION.

&&

.MARINE...E/SE WINDS AOB 10 KT WILL VEER TO SOUTHERLY COMPONENT
OVERNIGHT. SEAS AOB 2 FEET. SCATTERED STORMS WILL MOVE OFFSHORE THE
COAST THROUGH MID EVENING FROM BREVARD COUNTY NORTHWARD WITH LOCALLY
GUSTY WINDS/ROUGH SEAS NEAR STRONGEST STORMS. WEAK RIDGE AXIS
DRIFTING NORTH AND FURTHER WEAKENING INTO FRI WILL KEEP WINDS AND
SEAS WELL BELOW ANY HEADLINE CRITERIA. FLOW WILL BECOME EASTERLY
OVER THE WEEKEND AND MAY BACK MORE NELY BY EARLY NEXT WEEK IF WAVE
DEVELOPS OFF THE SE U.S. COAST... BUT VALUES GENERALLY EXPECTED TO
STAY BELOW 15KT AND SEAS AOB 3FT.

&&

.PRELIMINARY POINT TEMPS/POPS...
DAB 75 89 75 88 / 30 40 20 30
MCO 74 92 75 92 / 20 50 20 30
MLB 75 89 75 88 / 20 40 20 30
VRB 76 89 74 88 / 20 40 20 30

&&

.MLB WATCHES/WARNINGS/ADVISORIES...
FL...NONE.
AM...NONE.
&&

$$

SHORT TERM...SPRATT
IMPACT WEATHER UPDATES...VOLKMER
LONG TERM....GLITTO







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT (ATL): Discussions & Images 11 AM page 50

#1160 Postby gatorcane » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:52 pm

BUD wrote:This may do a Flody (99) type track.


Floyd was quite rare. It was one of those anomolies in the Hebert box theory.

although yes it could do something like Floyd.
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