CPAC: TROPICAL DEPRESSION FELICIA (08E)

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Derek Ortt

Re: Re:

#341 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:34 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
Derek Ortt wrote:everyone in Hawaii,

this is expected to be a tropical storm when it reaches Hawaii. No forecast has this weakening below TS intensity, except for the poster above. Doesn't mean that it cannot weaken, just that is not the forecast


Okay thanks. Cause a year ago or so I warned my parents about Hurricane Flossie, but it really didnt do much of an impact. I don't know whether to warn them or not. I guess will see at the 5PM CPHC advisory.


The afternoon recon showed no change in intensity throughout the day. However, I still expect weakening as this should encounter shear by the time it reaches 148W. A full day in the shear should weaken this to a moderate to minimal TS
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Re:

#342 Postby wxmann_91 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:35 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:crossing a 13,000 foot mountain... you should know that causes weakening!

From my last post:

The last several NHC forecasts had either LF in Hawaii as a TD or Felicia weakening to TD status before that point.

Furthermore, you can't say CPHC expects this to be a TS at HI because, again, LF is between forecast points.

Anyways, this is a trivial argument. I know you're forecasting a 40-45 kt TS into HI. Go ahead and tell that to people here. But don't say no forecast besides mine says this weakens to a TD.
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Derek Ortt

#343 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:39 pm

please use the disclaimer when you post, wx_mann as the rules indicate. People are coming her for the best information available.

I think I'll just put you on ignore for a good long while
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#344 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:41 pm

for those in Hawaii, CPHC did mention the possibility of a TS watch. If watches or warnings are issued, please listen to local emergency management officials for the official information.
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Re:

#345 Postby wxmann_91 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:42 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:please use the disclaimer when you post, wx_mann as the rules indicate. People are coming her for the best information available.

I think I'll just put you on ignore for a good long while

From my original post:

"So, with the usual disclaimer, I say the answer to your question is most likely not."

And note I did not use "it DEFINITELY WILL" or equivalent excessively strong language. I know fully well the dangers of that.

I have no idea why you all of a sudden have this grudge against me just because I disagree with you a couple of times (plus I supported my claim each and every time). I have utmost respect for you despite our differences. To each his own, I guess.
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#346 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:53 pm

Ok,enough of this.Lets continue the discussions about Felicia.The new shear forecast will be out shortly to see how strong and when,it will start to impact Felicia.
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#347 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:59 pm

Yeah the TWC said a warning or watch might be put into effect soon. Does the strong shear kick in today or tomorrow?
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Re:

#348 Postby wxmann_91 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:08 pm

Kingarabian wrote:Yeah the TWC said a warning or watch might be put into effect soon. Does the strong shear kick in today or tomorrow?

Probably around tomorrow. Due to the fact I feel no desire to be punished by not posting the correct disclaimers, I'll just post a snippet from a recent NHC discussion (the one from 21 hr ago, in fact):

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2009/ep ... .018.shtml?

WATER VAPOR IMAGERY AND LARGE-SCALE
MODEL ANALYSES SUGGEST THAT THE SUBTROPICAL RIDGE IS BUILDING NORTH
OF FELICIA...WHICH SHOULD CAUSE THE HURRICANE TO TURN GRADUALLY
WESTWARD DURING THE NEXT 24-36 HR. AFTER THAT...THE MODELS
FORECAST FELICIA TO ENCOUNTER INCREASING UPPER-LEVEL WESTERLIES...
A BREAK IN THE MID-LEVEL RIDGE EAST OF THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS...AND A
WEAK MID-LEVEL ANTICYCLONE FORMING JUST SOUTHWEST OF THE ISLANDS.
THE MODELS SHOW THIS EVOLUTION BLOCKING THE WESTWARD MOTION OF THE
MID- AND UPPER-LEVEL PORTIONS OF FELICIA...CAUSING THE STORM TO
SHEAR APART IN ABOUT 48 HR.

Of course, a TS watch would IMO still be warranted since there's a pretty gigantic shear gradient around 20N forecasted by global models. A few degrees latitude north, Felicia's dead 12-24 hr after it hits the shear. A few degrees latitude south, would be likely a different story.

EDIT: to corroborate the above, another snippet from the same discussion:

IF FELICIA
MOVES SOUTH OF THE FORECAST TRACK...IT WOULD ENCOUNTER WARMER SSTS
AND LESS SHEAR...WHICH COULD ALLOW IT TO REMAIN STRONGER THAN
FORECAST. ON THE OTHER HAND...ANY MOTION NORTH OF THE FORECAST
TRACK WOULD STEER THE CYCLONE INTO STRONG SHEAR NORTH OF HAWAII AND
HASTEN ITS DEMISE.
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#349 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:41 pm

The US Air Force sent its first reconnaissance flight into Felicia earlier today and measured a central pressure of 981 MB with flight level winds near 700 MB of 86 knots (98 mph). Winds move faster higher up so the actual wind speed near sea level was estimated to be closer to 77 knots or 88 mph. Another reconnaissance flight is expected later Saturday evening.


http://www.examiner.com/x-13058-San-Jos ... -in-Hawaii
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#350 Postby hawaiigirl » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:47 pm

Looking at hourly imagery of the central pacific, why does it not look like felicia is weakening?
If the eye were to form again today and Felicia were to get stronger, would Felicia still be a TS or TD by the time it hits us?
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#351 Postby hawaiigirl » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:08 pm

And what about all that moisture below the islands? is that coming towards us as well?
thanx :)
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#352 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:09 pm

00 UTC best track is at 75kts.

EP, 08, 2009080900, , BEST, 0, 199N, 1427W, 75, 982, HU
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#353 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:12 pm

The 00 UTC Shear forecast from SHIP shows plenty of shear impacting Felicia starting in the next 12 hours.

Code: Select all

            *   EAST PACIFIC SHIPS INTENSITY FORECAST   *
                    *      GOES DATA AVAILABLE                  *
                    *      OHC  DATA AVAILABLE                  *
                    *     FELICIA  EP082009  08/09/09  00 UTC   *

TIME (HR)          0     6    12    18    24    36    48    60    72    84    96   108   120


SHEAR (KT)         2     8    14    21    22    34    33    32    25    26    28    25    25
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#354 Postby hawaiigirl » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:17 pm

Image
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#355 Postby JonathanBelles » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 pm

There is no weakening visible on the Rainbow floater. http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t7/loop-rb.html

Looks very good in fact. Shear should take its toll before Hawai'i, but just in case, they should prepare for a hurricane or maximal TS. Cannot hurt to be over prepared. I am not saying this will be a Max TS+ at landfall...I am saying that you should be prepared if you are in the Islands. This is also not a forecast.
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Re:

#356 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:07 pm

fact789 wrote:There is no weakening visible on the Rainbow floater. http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t7/loop-rb.html

Looks very good in fact. Shear should take its toll before Hawai'i, but just in case, they should prepare for a hurricane or maximal TS. Cannot hurt to be over prepared. I am not saying this will be a Max TS+ at landfall...I am saying that you should be prepared if you are in the Islands. This is also not a forecast.


We should see what the CPHC will say in its next forecast in around 30 mins.....

What difference do you professional's see in this hurricane, then the other hurricanes in the past?
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Re: Re:

#357 Postby JonathanBelles » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:12 pm

We should see what the CPHC will say in its next forecast in around 30 mins.....

What difference do you professional's see in this hurricane, then the other hurricanes in the past?


I am NOT a professional if that was directed towards me.
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Re: Re:

#358 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:14 pm

fact789 wrote:
We should see what the CPHC will say in its next forecast in around 30 mins.....

What difference do you professional's see in this hurricane, then the other hurricanes in the past?


I am NOT a professional if that was directed towards me.


Well its to anyone who has alot of knowledge with Hurricanes. So I am pretty sure it includes you. :wink:
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Derek Ortt

Re: Re:

#359 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:15 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
fact789 wrote:There is no weakening visible on the Rainbow floater. http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t7/loop-rb.html

Looks very good in fact. Shear should take its toll before Hawai'i, but just in case, they should prepare for a hurricane or maximal TS. Cannot hurt to be over prepared. I am not saying this will be a Max TS+ at landfall...I am saying that you should be prepared if you are in the Islands. This is also not a forecast.


We should see what the CPHC will say in its next forecast in around 30 mins.....

What difference do you professional's see in this hurricane, then the other hurricanes in the past?


shear over the islands SHOULD prevent this from intensifying quickly tomorrow, which was not the case 16 years ago with Fernanda. The shear was a little farther west. If this did a Fernanda overnight, due to the UL position, this should slow near 147W instead of 150W and would not likely require a hurricane warning
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Re: EPAC: HURRICANE FELICIA (08E)

#360 Postby tolakram » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:29 pm

MIMIC is showing what appears to be some reorganization. To my amateur eyes anyway.

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real- ... splay.html
Image
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