ATL: ISAAC - Models

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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1941 Postby SapphireSea » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:46 pm

northjaxpro wrote:
SouthFLTropics wrote:I think one thing that we need to take into account will be center relocation due to the disruption that is sure to happen when it crosses Hispaniola and Cuba. A center relocation to the north of Hispaniola sooner than what the models are showing could throw a big wrench into the future track and intensity of the system.

SFT


This is a very good thouht and assessment SFT. I agree. Center reformation after interacting with Cuba and Haiti will be a critical factor as we approach that juncture.



I think we've seen this with old Irene. A storm may interact with land and have the center weaken some, however parts over water (like what happens with small land masses like Cuba) may keep powerful convection and cause new centers or eddys to develop. This can have the potential to become the new LLC and/or pull the old one over to it. I think there have been a few cases of this happening with systems.
Last edited by SapphireSea on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1942 Postby meriland23 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:48 pm

this will all come down to one thing... the ridge. If it breaks as strong as GFS predicts, then expect florida to be in sights, if it is not as strong of a break, then mid gulf will be favorable like euro has been stubbornly putting out. If this thing books it faster than gfs predicts, it will beat the ridge to the punch and head more west and pass maybe over western cuba.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1943 Postby SouthFloridawx » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:48 pm

I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*
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#1944 Postby Wthrman13 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:49 pm

SunnyThoughts wrote:Wthrman13, thanks so much for your input, and analysis. Very informative.


You're welcome :). One thing I want to clarify: our track forecasting is leaps and bounds better than our intensity forecasting, and has improved substantially over the last few decades. The dynamical models now routinely outperform the statistically-based ones for track forecasting. My comments regarding the "crap shoot" refer specifically to intensity forecasting, which is far more challenging. I have every confidence that will also improve as our models do, but it's going to be a much longer road than the improvement in track forecasting has been.

Oh, and both the GFS and ECMWF are outstanding, state-of-the-art models, and neither should be discounted in any given event unless there are very good reasons for doing so. That isn't the case here.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1945 Postby Miami Storm Tracker » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:51 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*



Outstanding post could not agree more.
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#1946 Postby SunnyThoughts » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:53 pm

I for one don't favor any model of another. I"m like most people here, just using them for the purpose of getting an idea where the storm is headed. (especially considering I live on the panhandle and I have a daughter who is expecting her 3rd child in about 3 weeks) Need as much info as I can get in order to have enough lead time to decide what to do in preparation, if preparation is needed at all.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1947 Postby northjaxpro » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:54 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*



We are thinking alike here. I just posted something very similar to this on the previous page. I totally agree with you here.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1948 Postby blp » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:55 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*


Well said. My advice is to just block the poster in your profile. It makes for a more pleasant experience when a storm is out there and people get hyped up.
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#1949 Postby meriland23 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:58 pm

I like this disagreement in model runs this close in time.. makes for interesting sleepless nights, and plenty of coffee runs LOL
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1950 Postby ROCK » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:59 pm

Ikester wrote:
ROCK wrote:
Ikester wrote:I dunno, IMO the ''shifts'' are pretty negligible to me. Any strength hurricane hitting east of Panama City is going to cause major surge issues into the big bend. Get back to me when it SHIFTS west or east---not by 5 or 6 miles. :wink:



so you discount the EURO solution correct? I am curious.


I didn't say that. I just don't bet everything I have on a model that has done poorly this year. It's been my experience that ridges are overblown by the models and the strength of troughs is underplayed. I've posted this before and I'll post it again here: there was a study done by a forecaster at HGX (Houston) that found hurricanes in the gulf that miss their forecast points miss to the RIGHT almost 70% of the time.



Poorly? plenty of studies that show the EURO out performs the GFS in verification for years now...how has it done poorly? Debbie? I remember watching the GFS stall Debbie in the GOM for about 8 days in some of its insane runs....yeah in the end it got it right for all the wrong reasons. The EURO set the trend last night and so far the other models are picking up and shifting west...5-10 miles? Its a little more than that...


I sure hope the EURO run in a hour will resolve some things. Maybe it will shift more right...and all will be right as rain....
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1951 Postby RL3AO » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:59 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*


Delete it? I'm more likely to lock the thread for five minutes and quote it in big bold letters for all to see.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1952 Postby SapphireSea » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:00 am

Miami Storm Tracker wrote:
SouthFloridawx wrote:I know that you guys might delete this. The whole Model bashing thing, is getting kind of old. It doesn't make it conducive for people to get the most accurate (non-official) information as they possibly can. Just because you are having an emotional reaction to the Model, doesn't mean it's "junk". You can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think the model may not have the best solution at the time.

One of the biggest reasons I have continually been coming to this site is that I have the ability to learn something new. When people and I am not naming anyone in particular trashes model runs, because they don't fit the end to the means that the person is trying to get... well... that doesn't make for an educational/learning experience for new-comers... Just like you were one day... to learn all they can.

Keep it friendly, include facts and have an intelligent discussion. Most of all lets learn something important and be safe. You never know who you are talking to here. You never know who you could inspire to be great.

*Steps off soap-box*



Outstanding post could not agree more.


EDIT2: The below is in agreement to the above.

Yes. The models are tools, and are to be treated as such. Bringing opinionated and subjective analysis of a model run is no different than declaring it as your own biased forecast. The models all have their peak niches for different situations. The GFS may be very accurate in certain areas of the basin, and then be nothing but a control basis in another part. The BAMS are great in the CV MDR, but their accuracy drops when initializing N of 15 or near the carribean. I think we all really know what is worth what and as semi-educated or educated people that we know that model runs are nothing more than a computer calculated hypothesis to help create a more comprehensive and objective human hypothesis (forecast). They are our adjusting controls.
Last edited by SapphireSea on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#1953 Postby Kingarabian » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:01 am

meriland23 wrote:I like this disagreement in model runs this close in time.. makes for interesting sleepless nights, and plenty of coffee runs LOL

Tell me about it... and 99% of these storms don't affect me.
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#1954 Postby Rgv20 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:10 am

Looks like the 0zUKMET shifted slightly to the west..


Forecast valid for Monday Evening
Image
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1955 Postby Jevo » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:12 am

Well.. while we're all waiting for the Euro... we may as well look at some models... HWRF is running

0z HWRF Initialized

Image

0z HWRF + 12

Image

0z HWRF + 24

Image
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Re:

#1956 Postby ROCK » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:17 am

[quote="Rgv20"]Looks like the 0zUKMET shifted slightly to the west..


Forecast valid for Monday Evening
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/c ... 0000-3.gif


so did the CMC and NOGAPS....
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#1957 Postby Weatherfreak000 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:18 am

That sure is a substantial shift from the ukmet.... :wink:
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Re: Re:

#1958 Postby Texashawk » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:20 am

ROCK wrote:
Rgv20 wrote:Looks like the 0zUKMET shifted slightly to the west..


Forecast valid for Monday Evening
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/c ... 0000-3.gif



Weatherfreak000 wrote:That sure is a substantial shift from the ukmet.... :wink:


Looks like an Alabama/Miss kind of shift to me.... marching west
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1959 Postby PTrackerLA » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:21 am

Wow quite a large shift from UKMET. Too bad I'm far too tired to set my alarm for the Euro...need to sleep while I can :lol: :eek: .
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Models

#1960 Postby meriland23 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:22 am

PTrackerLA wrote:Wow quite a large shift from UKMET. Too bad I'm far too tired to set my alarm for the Euro...need to sleep while I can :lol: :eek: .


Cwarfee! Extra strong..
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