ATL: ISAAC - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re:

#3941 Postby MHurricanes » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:11 am

Time_Zone wrote:Doesn't look too hot to me. It looks unlikely that Isaac will ever reach his full potential and become the monster that alot of people have been fearing. Although stranger things have happened I just don't see him ever making a run to major hurricane status which of course would be great for everyone if indeed that is the case.


Just my un-educated opinion not an official forecast


Just as Isaac's winds were ramping up and an eyewall was forming last night, it ran into Haiti. I don't think we'll see Isaac exert its "muscle" until it moves away from Cuba and over open water. Joe Bastardi is predicting major strengthening (at least CAT 2) as the storm enters the Florida Straits and heads towards the Keys. If the northwest to north-northwest movement continues, the folks in Miami should be very concerned.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3942 Postby jlauderdal » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:14 am

WeatherOrKnot wrote:Here we go again. Local wpb mets are saying will have breezy conditions and we shouldn't be concerned. No shutters will be needed here at all. Seems irresponsible to be broadcasting that when things can change at any time.

Eta- he just doubled back and said UNLESS things change. Wise decision.


steve weagle?
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3943 Postby smw1981 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:19 am

MJS1 wrote:
TexasF6 wrote:@CronkPSU, someone mentioned earlier that Andrew "chased" a blob in directionality...but I would take that with a grain of salt. IMHO, looks like he will shoot through Hurricane Alley, the worry will be a bend back towards Tampa if some of the latest model trends of NE move at the end of his run prior to landfall. I have not seen any tweets on loss of life in Haiti as of yet, worth a mention ATP.

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Oh,no..it DID happen..it was a ULL that almost killed Andrew..it moved west afterwards,crossed Florida and eventually into Mexico..Andrew DID follow it thru Florida...obviously and ONLY IN MY UNTRAINED OPINION if the present "blob" stays put it doesn't fare well for Isaac..as an UNTRAINED AMATEUR I assumed wrongly it appears that the "blob" would move west..


A Met on here earlier this morning (don't remember which one) said that was the trough that sent Isaac in it's current direction and has developed a vort max(?), and that it would be lifting out tonight.. I will see if I can go back and find the explanation for you!
Last edited by smw1981 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3944 Postby jhpigott » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:20 am

No real educated thoughts on Isaac's exact track, but I can tell you here in northern Palm Beach County we have already received a good amount of rain since last night. Between whatever that is currently in the FL Straits (trough w/ a vort?) and Isaac it looks like most of S. FL is in for alot of rain.
Last edited by jhpigott on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3945 Postby rjgator » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:20 am

Does anyone have a guess as to where the center is right now
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#3946 Postby MHurricanes » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:21 am

Joe Bastardi Tweets this morning:

"Reason to worry about Miami: storm is further east and a track 60 miles further east and deepening to cat 2/3 problem with hit from se."

"12z track models adjusted northeast about 40 miles from 06z in 1st 36 hrs."

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/stat ... to/1/large
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3947 Postby wxman57 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:21 am

JamesCaneTracker wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
wzrgirl1 wrote:Any chances Isaac could fall apart or is that far fetched at this point because the circulation is well intact?


Won't fall apart, but I think that the chances of it being weaker than forecast are greater than of it becoming stronger than forecast.


Just wondering why you say that? I mean with less Land interaction the core is still relatively well in tact... Pressure is already falling again... Warm SSTs... Low wind Shear... What is missing?


What's missing is that the air throughout the tropics just isn't as unstable as it typically is. This is mostly related to warm, dry, sinking air combined with a much stronger Saharan Air Layer that has penetrated quite far west this season.

The graphic below indicates that the instability across the Gulf is way below normal, meaning it's more stable than normal - most likely to a layer of above-normal temps aloft:

Image
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Re: Re:

#3948 Postby Hurricane_Luis » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:22 am

ROCK wrote:
Hurricaneman wrote:
Hurricane_Luis wrote:Is it me or on the last 3 frames of the sat loop the llcc seems to be exposed, or dose it have a really disorganized structure



It looks like this is decoupling, that would be good news for those in south Florida and the Gulf Coast if true

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its not decoupled...your best bet would it to tranverse all of Cuba but I dont think thats going to happen....


so the MLC and the LLCC arent "stacked" anymore, thats what decoupling is?
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#3949 Postby SouthDadeFish » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:23 am

Yay, more microwave passes. Here's your center at 13Z, just off the tip of Cuba:

Image
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3950 Postby ROCK » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:23 am

rjgator wrote:Does anyone have a guess as to where the center is right now



:uarrow: see above....19.7N / 20N to about 74W....somewhere in there...


nice call Tailgator!...
Last edited by ROCK on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#3951 Postby psyclone » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:23 am

is the center moving westward or just north of west along the south coast of extreme eastern cuba?
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3952 Postby USTropics » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:25 am

rjgator wrote:Does anyone have a guess as to where the center is right now


The LLC looks to be on the very southeastern tip of Cuba about to come ashore. I would say 74.5W and 19.8N
Last edited by USTropics on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3953 Postby x-y-no » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:25 am

ROCK wrote:
rjgator wrote:Does anyone have a guess as to where the center is right now



:uarrow: see above....19.7N / 20N to about 74W....somewhere in there...


nice call Tailgator!...



Yes. Just approaching the eastern end of Cube. Very clear on visible loop.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3954 Postby Hurricaneman » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:28 am

I have to ask, but is it possible that the current LLCC dissapates inside eastern Cuba and reforms near the convection, comments welcome
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3955 Postby janswizard » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:31 am

BenD wrote:Just saying hi, have been watching this storm due to its chances of bringing even more rain to N/Central Florida.

Been quite a year for this part of Florida with so much rain. What a year to move here ..



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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3956 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:32 am

This morning's discussion of Issac by Dr Jeff Masters.

Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 10:24 AM AST on August 25, 2012

Tropical Storm Isaac is pounding Haiti and the Dominican Republic with torrential rains that are causing extremely dangerous flooding and landslides. Isaac's center passed over Haiti's southwest peninsula early this morning, tracking about 50 miles west of the capital of Port-au-Prince. As the center pulled away to the northwest, Isaac's heaviest thunderstorms moved ashore over Hispaniola near sunrise, and are now dumping heavy rains with rainfall rates approaching one inch per hour, according to recent microwave satellite estimates. Barahona on the south coast of the Dominican Republic had received 5.14" of rain as of 8 am EDT this morning, and it is probable that some mountainous areas in Haiti and the Dominican Republic have already received up to 10" of rain from Isaac. These rains will continue though much of the day, and have the potential to cause high loss of life in Hispaniola.


Latest observations

Isaac built a partial eyewall last night as the storm approached Haiti, but passage over the rough mountains of Haiti has destroyed the inner core, and the surface center of the storm is now fully exposed to view on satellite images. Radar out of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba shows no sign of an organized center, but does reveal some very intense thunderstorms affecting Eastern Cuba, Western Haiti, and nearby islands. Latest data from the Air Force Hurricane Hunters confirm that Isaac has weakened; during their penetration to obtain their 7:08 am EDT center fix, the aircraft reported top surface winds of 55 mph with their SFMR instrument, top flight-level winds at 5,000 feet of 68 mph, and a pressure rise of 3 mb, to 998 mb. Infrared and visible satellite loops show that Isaac remains a large and well-organized storm, though it lacks an inner core. An analysis of upper level winds from the University of Wisconsin CIMSS shows that upper-level outflow is still good to the north, but is lacking elsewhere. An impressive large multi-day satellite animation of Isaac is available from the Navy Research Lab.


Latest model runs for Isaac

The latest set of 0Z and 06Z (8 pm and 2 am EDT) model runs are similar in spread to the previous set of runs. Our two best models, the GFS and ECMWF, are virtually on top of each other, with a landfall location in the Florida Panhandle between Fort Walton Beach and Panama City. It is likely that the trough of low pressure pulling Isaac to the north will not be strong enough to pull Isaac all the way to the northeast and out to sea, and Isaac has the potential to drop torrential rains capable of causing serious flooding over the Southeast U.S. The latest 8-day precipitation forecast from the GFS model (Figure 3) calls for 10 - 15 inches of rain over portions of Georgia and South Carolina from Isaac. The ECMWF model, however, predicts that a ridge of high pressure will build in and force Isaac to the west after landfall, resulting in a slow motion across the Tennessee Valley into Arkansas by Friday. Arkansas is experiencing its worst drought in over 50 years, so the rains would be welcome there.


Intensity forecast for Isaac

Isaac survived passage over Hispaniola relatively intact. It's large size aided this, and this will also help it survive passage over Cuba today and Sunday. By the time Isaac pops off the coast of Cuba into the Florida Straits on Sunday, it will likely be a 50 mph tropical storm with a large, intact circulation. Isaac will be over very warm waters of 31°C (88°F) in the Florida Straits, wind shear will be light to moderate, and the upper-level wind pattern will feature an upper-level anticyclone over the storm, aiding its upper-level outflow. As I discussed in my previous post, Crossing Hispaniola and Cuba: a history, there have been five storms since 1900 with an intensity similar to Isaac, which crossed over both Haiti and Cuba, then emerged into the Florida Straits. These five storms strengthened by 5 - 20 mph in their first 24 hours after coming off the coast of Cuba. Given the relatively intact structure of Isaac so far, and the favorable conditions for intensification, I expect Isaac will intensify by 15 - 20 mph in 24 hours once the center moves off of the north coast of Cuba. If Isaac spends a full two days over water after passing the Florida Keys, it is possible that it will have enough time to develop a full eyewall and undergo rapid intensification into a Category 2 or 3 hurricane. The latest 06Z (2 am EDT) run of the GFDL model is calling for Isaac to intensify to Category 2 strength, then weaken to Category 1 at landfall in Mississippi on Tuesday. The 06Z HWRF run is calling for landfall in the Florida Panhandle near Fort Walton Beach as a borderline Category 2 or 3 hurricane. The 5 am EDT NHC wind probability forecast gave Isaac a 19% chance of becoming a Category 2 or stronger hurricane in the Gulf. I expect these odds are too low, and that Isaac has a 40% chance of becoming a Category 2 or stronger hurricane in the Northern Gulf of Mexico. I doubt the storm has much of a chance of hitting Category 4 or 5 status, though. While the surface waters in the Gulf of Mexico are very warm, near 30 - 31°C, the total heat content of these waters is unusually low for this time of year. We got lucky with the Gulf of Mexico Loop Current this summer, as it did not shed a big warm eddy during the height of hurricane season, like happened in 2005 (I discuss this in my Gulf of Mexico Loop Current Tutorial.) Without the type of super-high heat energy we had in 2005 in the Gulf of Mexico, Category 4 and 5 hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico in 2012 will have difficulty forming.
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Re:

#3957 Postby jlauderdal » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:34 am

MHurricanes wrote:Joe Bastardi Tweets this morning:

"Reason to worry about Miami: storm is further east and a track 60 miles further east and deepening to cat 2/3 problem with hit from se."

"12z track models adjusted northeast about 40 miles from 06z in 1st 36 hrs."

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/stat ... to/1/large


yep, we were seeing this at 4 am this morning on the board..check vortex, jlauderdal posts..the center was tracking east of the entire model spread from the get go
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3958 Postby USTropics » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:35 am

Hurricaneman wrote:I have to ask, but is it possible that the current LLCC dissapates inside eastern Cuba and reforms near the convection, comments welcome


I believe it's gone through enough organization the past 24 hours to withstand the trek over Cuba and remain relatively intact. However, it will have to traverse over some of the highest mountain tops of Cuba.

Image
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#3959 Postby rjgator » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:39 am

It is hard to see a center on the Guantanamo Bay Radar. Does anyone have a link that has more up to date Radar info from anywhere in Cuba than the NWS site. Seems pics are about a hour old if I'm converting time right. Is EST 5 hours behind Zulu?
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Re:

#3960 Postby tolakram » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:41 am

rjgator wrote:It is hard to see a center on the Guantanamo Bay Radar. Does anyone have a link that has more up to date Radar info from anywhere in Cuba than the NWS site. Seems pics are about a hour old if I'm converting time right. Is EST 5 hours behind Zulu?


EDT is 4 hours behind, EST is 5.
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