ATL: NATE - Post Tropical - Discussion

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Alyono
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Re: ATL: NATE - Models

#1061 Postby Alyono » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:10 am

LarryWx wrote:
Alyono wrote:
LarryWx wrote:
There's a big initialization problem with UK and that has a lot to do with how strong it is and how far east its track is. First of all, it already had it just going offshore at 0Z (8 PM), or 4 hours early over hot water, and a whopping full degree east of where it actually was at 8 PM. UK had it at 83.5W and it was at 84.5 W per NHC! Shear is likely less there, too. Then, partially because of that too far east initialization, UK send him E of the Yucatan! So, that is another reason why it has him so strong. Can anyone think of a reason that this run shouldn't be thrown in the trash?


The thing is, some ensemble guidance I have seen also shows a track east of the Yucatan. The initial intensity is accurate based upon the aircraft data


But it is starting out 60 miles E of reality, which makes it much easier to miss the Yucatan and puts it in a better environment. You talk about throwing out the GFS and maybe for good reason, but why not also throw something that initializes a very crucial 60 miles too far east?


I would need to see the actual fields to make sure that is not merely the vortex tracker picking up on something it shouldn't
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1062 Postby CrazyC83 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:12 am

URNT15 KNHC 060510
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 38 20171006
050030 1602N 08446W 8429 01489 //// +165 //// 006010 011 019 001 01
050100 1602N 08444W 8430 01484 0001 +167 +163 355010 010 019 001 03
050130 1602N 08443W 8432 01483 9997 +171 +166 009006 009 019 001 03
050200 1601N 08441W 8425 01487 9997 +172 +168 345003 004 018 003 00
050230 1601N 08441W 8425 01487 9994 +171 +167 302003 003 021 003 03
050300 1600N 08438W 8430 01484 9995 +172 +167 040002 004 015 002 03
050330 1601N 08437W 8436 01474 9990 +172 +167 062005 006 016 002 00
050400 1603N 08436W 8417 01490 9987 +174 +163 069005 006 019 001 00
050430 1604N 08434W 8428 01479 9991 +171 +159 103006 008 019 001 00
050500 1605N 08433W 8429 01476 9992 +168 +158 118010 011 022 001 00
050530 1607N 08432W 8428 01481 9995 +165 +161 132015 018 022 002 00
050600 1608N 08430W 8432 01476 9992 +168 +161 132021 023 024 001 00
050630 1609N 08429W 8429 01481 9997 +165 +159 138027 029 026 001 00
050700 1611N 08427W 8429 01481 9999 +165 +156 136030 031 028 001 00
050730 1612N 08426W 8430 01483 0001 +165 +156 129030 031 028 002 00
050800 1613N 08425W 8430 01483 0002 +165 +156 129031 031 030 000 00
050830 1615N 08423W 8427 01488 0004 +165 +156 131031 032 029 001 00
050900 1616N 08422W 8432 01487 0007 +165 +157 137033 033 030 002 00
050930 1618N 08421W 8430 01489 0008 +165 +159 139033 034 032 002 00
051000 1619N 08419W 8430 01492 0011 +165 +158 142034 034 030 001 00
$$
;


Caught most of the center - pressure looks to be 998mb.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1063 Postby bob rulz » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:21 am

How can land disrupt an SFMR reading so much?
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1064 Postby CrazyC83 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:21 am

URNT15 KNHC 060520
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 39 20171006
051030 1620N 08418W 8430 01492 0012 +167 +155 143035 036 030 001 00
051100 1622N 08416W 8431 01493 0014 +165 +158 145036 037 032 000 00
051130 1623N 08415W 8430 01497 0016 +165 +156 148036 038 029 001 00
051200 1625N 08413W 8429 01498 0017 +165 +155 152033 035 027 001 00
051230 1625N 08413W 8429 01498 0017 +169 +154 153031 032 025 001 00
051300 1628N 08411W 8428 01503 0018 +169 +149 157036 037 027 000 00
051330 1629N 08409W 8434 01498 0020 +168 +151 155035 037 027 000 00
051400 1630N 08408W 8429 01503 0020 +170 +154 159037 038 029 001 00
051430 1632N 08406W 8432 01502 0024 +165 +156 161036 038 030 001 00
051500 1633N 08405W 8432 01504 0025 +168 +152 158038 038 029 001 00
051530 1635N 08403W 8423 01514 0025 +169 +150 161036 038 029 001 00
051600 1636N 08402W 8429 01507 0026 +170 +149 160035 036 030 000 00
051630 1638N 08400W 8433 01505 0027 +171 +147 159038 038 028 001 00
051700 1639N 08359W 8432 01507 0029 +167 +152 159038 039 028 001 00
051730 1641N 08357W 8429 01512 0026 +174 +147 162035 037 027 000 00
051800 1642N 08356W 8429 01511 0029 +171 +147 165035 035 027 000 00
051830 1644N 08354W 8429 01511 0031 +170 +147 164035 035 027 000 00
051900 1645N 08353W 8430 01513 0033 +167 +153 162035 036 026 001 00
051930 1647N 08351W 8426 01517 0040 +161 +161 154034 036 029 004 01
052000 1648N 08350W 8429 01513 0034 +166 +155 159034 035 028 004 00
$$
;
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1065 Postby LarryWx » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:22 am

The GFS/CMC don't strengthen it at all from this point on even though out over hot water while the Euro and UK do. Will the GFS/CMC score a coup or will they look stupid? We should know something within the next 6-9 hours. The current firing up is making me suspect they will look stupid.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1066 Postby CrazyC83 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:31 am

URNT15 KNHC 060530
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 40 20171006
052030 1650N 08348W 8433 01512 0034 +169 +151 157033 035 025 001 00
052100 1651N 08347W 8430 01513 0036 +166 +148 157036 038 025 000 00
052130 1652N 08346W 8432 01513 0036 +168 +147 159039 040 029 001 00
052200 1654N 08344W 8430 01518 0036 +173 +139 161037 039 028 000 00
052230 1654N 08344W 8430 01518 0036 +174 +133 161037 038 029 001 00
052300 1657N 08341W 8430 01518 0038 +174 +133 161038 039 029 000 00
052330 1658N 08340W 8429 01519 0039 +172 +133 160041 041 030 000 00
052400 1700N 08338W 8428 01520 0041 +169 +137 160040 041 029 001 03
052430 1701N 08337W 8429 01520 0042 +169 +140 161038 040 028 001 00
052500 1703N 08335W 8431 01520 0042 +167 +150 162037 038 030 000 00
052530 1704N 08334W 8430 01521 0041 +171 +149 162036 037 031 000 00
052600 1706N 08332W 8430 01521 0041 +170 +152 162037 038 029 001 00
052630 1707N 08331W 8428 01524 0042 +170 +151 161037 038 027 001 00
052700 1709N 08329W 8432 01521 0042 +171 +149 160037 039 030 001 00
052730 1710N 08328W 8429 01524 0043 +170 +150 162040 041 029 001 00
052800 1712N 08326W 8425 01529 0044 +172 +136 164043 044 030 001 00
052830 1713N 08325W 8428 01527 0046 +172 +134 165043 044 027 002 00
052900 1715N 08323W 8430 01525 0045 +173 +136 164042 043 029 001 00
052930 1716N 08322W 8429 01527 0047 +173 +138 162041 042 029 000 00
053000 1717N 08320W 8429 01528 0048 +172 +144 162039 041 030 000 00
$$
;

Someone else please take over.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1067 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:38 am

ok
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1068 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:43 am

000
URNT15 KNHC 060540
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 41 20171006
053030 1719N 08319W 8425 01532 0050 +167 +154 159039 042 025 001 00
053100 1721N 08318W 8431 01526 0048 +171 +151 160039 043 026 002 00
053130 1723N 08318W 8429 01530 0046 +172 +157 161037 038 029 005 03
053200 1726N 08318W 8431 01525 0049 +162 +156 158037 038 032 005 01
053230 1728N 08318W 8430 01526 0049 +168 +155 157038 040 030 001 00
053300 1730N 08319W 8433 01525 0048 +170 +154 156039 041 027 001 00
053330 1732N 08319W 8430 01528 0050 +170 +153 157039 040 025 000 00
053400 1734N 08320W 8433 01526 0051 +170 +150 157036 038 026 000 00
053430 1737N 08320W 8433 01526 0053 +170 +150 157030 034 025 001 03
053500 1738N 08321W 8425 01533 0051 +171 +149 150025 026 024 000 00
053530 1740N 08323W 8430 01528 0051 +171 +147 141026 027 024 001 00
053600 1741N 08325W 8432 01529 0053 +168 +151 142027 028 025 000 00
053630 1741N 08325W 8432 01529 0052 +167 +152 135028 028 025 000 00
053700 1744N 08328W 8432 01527 0051 +169 +151 139030 031 021 001 00
053730 1745N 08330W 8363 01594 0049 +163 +149 137032 032 020 001 00
053800 1747N 08332W 8146 01819 0047 +152 +138 141033 034 021 001 00
053830 1748N 08334W 7885 02095 0046 +142 +115 147033 034 021 000 00
053900 1749N 08336W 7621 02377 0032 +131 +095 151033 035 020 001 00
053930 1750N 08338W 7361 02672 0029 +118 +083 145031 033 024 001 00
054000 1752N 08340W 7143 02925 0022 +111 +066 137035 036 025 000 00
$$
;
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1069 Postby Chris90 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:45 am

bob rulz wrote:How can land disrupt an SFMR reading so much?


SFMR specifically measures the ocean, so therefore it is completely useless over the land. I believe it measures the brightness of the ocean spray/whitecaps to give a reading of the wind, but I'm not 100% on that. I think that's why it isn't as effective closer to land though, because there's already waves breaking and whitecaps created by the shore in the shallower waters, therefore it inflates the reading. I didn't know that land could disrupt the reading to the degree that it has Nate with the 136kt reading though.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1070 Postby HenkL » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:48 am

URNT12 KNHC 060533
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL162017
A. 06/05:02:50Z
B. 16 deg 00 min N
084 deg 39 min W
C. 850 mb 1406 m
D. 33 kt
E. 282 deg 16 nm
F. 017 deg 30 kt
G. 286 deg 55 nm
H. 1000 mb
I. 16 C / 1525 m
J. 18 C / 1524 m
K. 17 C / NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 12345 / 08
O. 0.02 / 5 nm
P. AF305 0316A NATE OB 10
MAX OUTBOUND AND MAX FL WIND 44 KT 045 / 101 NM 05:28:30Z
CNTR DROPSONDE SFC WIND 030 / 8 KT
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1071 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:51 am

In my opinion the landfall had to be stronger than its current intensity and this morning it did seem to have developed an banding eye feature on the radar.

So I'd estimate landfall intensity this morning was near 55 knots. Based on the flight level it is currently near 45 knts.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1072 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:53 am

000
URNT15 KNHC 060550
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 42 20171006
054030 1753N 08342W 6922 03188 0026 +093 +062 137036 037 026 000 03
054100 1755N 08344W 6707 03452 0022 +084 +041 138036 037 025 001 00
054130 1757N 08345W 6524 03685 0013 +078 +016 139039 039 026 000 00
054200 1759N 08347W 6309 03962 0016 +060 +007 141039 039 026 000 00
054230 1801N 08348W 6094 04250 0009 +045 +011 143036 039 028 000 00
054300 1803N 08350W 5916 04463 9980 +031 +010 150038 040 027 002 00
054330 1805N 08351W 5751 04692 0030 +005 //// 134035 040 025 007 05
054400 1807N 08353W 5478 05106 0211 -008 -014 148036 038 027 003 00
054430 1809N 08354W 5332 05325 0227 -016 -040 143036 037 028 002 00
054500 1811N 08355W 5198 05524 0241 -026 -054 145039 039 026 002 00
054530 1813N 08357W 5067 05733 0256 -034 -066 146040 040 026 001 00
054600 1815N 08358W 4966 05890 0266 -042 -076 144036 040 024 001 00
054630 1817N 08400W 4848 06083 0280 -057 -081 139031 033 026 000 00
054700 1818N 08401W 4732 06269 0293 -072 -089 140030 031 025 000 00
054730 1820N 08403W 4649 06415 0305 -074 -098 137031 032 023 001 00
054800 1822N 08404W 4584 06519 0309 -080 -097 135030 031 024 000 00
054830 1824N 08406W 4502 06657 0318 -089 -105 135028 030 024 000 00
054900 1826N 08407W 4416 06816 0333 -099 -110 132028 028 023 001 00
054930 1828N 08409W 4331 06963 0343 -112 -112 130027 028 024 000 01
055000 1830N 08410W 4251 07103 0352 -119 //// 133028 028 024 001 01
$$
;
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Re: ATL: NATE - Models

#1073 Postby LarryWx » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:55 am

Like 12Z, 0Z Euro barely misses Yuc. Stronger than GFS/CMC.

Init, ~50 miles NE of reality but much better than UK.
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Re: ATL: NATE - Recon Data

#1074 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:02 am

000
URNT15 KNHC 060600
AF305 0316A NATE HDOB 43 20171006
055030 1832N 08412W 4199 07203 0362 -124 //// 134028 029 025 000 01
055100 1834N 08413W 4154 07289 0371 -124 //// 140028 028 024 001 01
055130 1836N 08415W 4069 07446 0385 -130 //// 144027 027 024 000 01
055200 1837N 08416W 4023 07536 0392 -134 //// 141028 029 024 000 01
055230 1839N 08417W 4008 07557 0394 -137 //// 145030 030 024 000 01
055300 1841N 08419W 3987 07599 0396 -137 //// 144029 030 024 000 01
055330 1843N 08420W 3957 07663 0401 -140 //// 148027 028 025 000 01
055400 1844N 08421W 3933 07711 0404 -144 //// 147025 026 023 001 01
055430 1846N 08423W 3923 07721 0404 -146 //// 147024 026 024 000 01
055500 1848N 08424W 3923 07725 0402 -148 //// 146024 027 023 001 01
055530 1850N 08426W 3923 07717 0400 -146 //// 136020 023 023 001 01
055600 1852N 08427W 3925 07716 0399 -148 //// 138018 020 023 001 01
055630 1854N 08429W 3926 07713 0397 -151 //// 132019 020 022 001 01
055700 1856N 08430W 3926 07706 0395 -151 //// 134021 022 020 002 01
055730 1858N 08432W 3926 07711 0396 -148 //// 132022 022 022 000 01
055800 1900N 08433W 3926 07709 0395 -149 //// 129022 023 022 000 01
055830 1902N 08435W 3923 07710 0393 -150 //// 126024 025 022 000 01
055900 1904N 08436W 3923 07708 0392 -150 //// 124025 026 021 001 01
055930 1906N 08438W 3926 07708 0392 -148 //// 123027 027 020 001 01
060000 1908N 08440W 3925 07707 0391 -148 //// 123028 028 020 000 01
$$
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1075 Postby Alyono » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:21 am

LarryWx wrote:The GFS/CMC don't strengthen it at all from this point on even though out over hot water while the Euro and UK do. Will the GFS/CMC score a coup or will they look stupid? We should know something within the next 6-9 hours. The current firing up is making me suspect they will look stupid.


the new EC shoots the channel, yet doesn't intensify it

I wonder if the models are having issues resolving Nate from the monsoon trough?
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Re: ATL: NATE - Models

#1076 Postby Alyono » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:37 am

EC shows no intensification until landfall. Not sure how believable that is
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1077 Postby USTropics » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:39 am

The ECMWF has Nate as a mere 999mb TS at landfall (the current pressure of Nate). It's normally conservative on pressure, but that seems unusually low.

Image
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Re: ATL: NATE - Models

#1078 Postby bamajammer4eva » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:40 am

Alyono wrote:UMKET makes landfall at the Delta, then into MS/AL

Getting to the point where we NEED this to go east of New Orleans or else we could be looking at a horrible disaster given the trends this evening in terms of intensity


Sure the people in La would like for this to happen but then what about the population who happens to reside East of New Orleans?? I guess this is like football where some cheer for the East team while others are cheering for the west. I'm for the please fizzle out team :clap: . At any rate, model TVCN looks right on top of the NHC track from 10PM. However UKMET and Euro are in very close agreement and they've both been very good so far this season. I think NHC sticks with TVCN and previous advisory for continuity since to move east would require a change in watches. Here's the latest spaghetti graphic with latest Euro missing though it mostly copied UKMET.

Image
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Re: ATL: NATE - Models

#1079 Postby bella_may » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:43 am

Alyono wrote:EC shows no intensification until landfall. Not sure how believable that is


I've seen a few models do that today. Weird
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Re: ATL: NATE - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1080 Postby hurricanehunter69 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:43 am

Nate still has great structure. I'm very impressed with it's presentation on MIMIC. Good structure, high moisture ( including Gulf ) little to no shear, and insane water temps........Nate should strengthen all the way up to landfall, and I suspect we will be lucky if it makes landfall as only a cat two. NATE is already a proven killer and I'm afraid this event will be a lot worse than most people are expecting......Which could make 2017 the costliest season in history.http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/m ... /main.html
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