ATL: IRMA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Michele B
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9441 Postby Michele B » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:39 am

thundercam96 wrote:Based on some selective trends that have been showing regarding a weaker hurricane making landfall, I hope this doesn't add to the large complacency factor at hand. An estimated quarter of the states population (5 Million of ~20 million) has evacuated their residence to either another state or nearby locale. In the end, if thing landfalls as a Cat 3, it will have done a lot less damage than the Cat 4/5 they were predicting to hit. It will be great that the damage lessened and lives would be put at a considerably smaller risk throughout the entire state. But, what happens the next time something like this happens? Will the thought of "They always weaken before landfall" or "We evacuated last time and nothing big happened".


THAt's a risk with every storm. And it happens after every storm.

I don't know that there's a way to prevent that. Better to over-prepare than to put people's lives at stake for the sake of "not crying wolf" all the time.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9442 Postby tolakram » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:41 am

 https://twitter.com/EricBlake12/status/906522631817527296




Eric Blake ✔ @EricBlake12
Nice graphic showing all the NHC forecasts for #Irma. Despite the small (but important) shift near #Florida, solid predictions so far!
10:20 AM - Sep 9, 2017

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9443 Postby pgoss11 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:42 am

Stay safe my Storm 2 friends in Florida and Georgia. Breathing a sigh of relief here in Charleston. Storm surge and some breezy conditions forecasted for here, and isolated tornadoes. Thanking all the pros and mets who helped so much during the tracking of this storm!
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9444 Postby Blown Away » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:42 am

Image
Image
Little WNW wobble in last frame? Maybe turn starting?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9445 Postby GCANE » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:43 am

Actually, the eyewall has the largest surface winds.
Therefore, WISHE - Wind Induced Surface Heat Exchange from the Ocean, will increase dramatically once the entire eyewall gets back over the deeper water.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9446 Postby Alyono » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:43 am

aircraft data says this is a marginal cat 3 now. That said, it could quickly become a 4 again as it approaches the Lower Keys
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9447 Postby GCANE » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:45 am

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9448 Postby captain1 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:45 am

Long time lurker and weather nerd here - thanks to this forum I have learned so much. I do have a question about models. I have a basic, I think, understanding of how they work. What I am curious about is how they improve. I assume they incorporate actual data from a storm after the event is over and compare that to their predictions, and thereby gain reliability going forward?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9449 Postby tolakram » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:45 am

A friendly reminder.

If you make a post claiming something that is not verifiable your post will probably be removed. This is especially true if it's one of those topics likely to rile people up. Please be careful with sources and aware that some news on social media is not true.

I've been guilty twice this storm posting information that turned out to be bogus. :oops: Social media is awesome, until it isn't.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9450 Postby PTPatrick » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:46 am

Michele B wrote:
thundercam96 wrote:Based on some selective trends that have been showing regarding a weaker hurricane making landfall, I hope this doesn't add to the large complacency factor at hand. An estimated quarter of the states population (5 Million of ~20 million) has evacuated their residence to either another state or nearby locale. In the end, if thing landfalls as a Cat 3, it will have done a lot less damage than the Cat 4/5 they were predicting to hit. It will be great that the damage lessened and lives would be put at a considerably smaller risk throughout the entire state. But, what happens the next time something like this happens? Will the thought of "They always weaken before landfall" or "We evacuated last time and nothing big happened".


THAt's a risk with every storm. And it happens after every storm.

I don't know that there's a way to prevent that. Better to over-prepare than to put people's lives at stake for the sake of "not crying wolf" all the time.


This is why I am generally not a proponent of overevacuation and tend to recommend people stay in safe places closer by. Honesty if I was in a shelter or with family in Fort Lauderdale I would want to go home and spend this storm in my own home(provided it's not in a surge zone)...but if you evacuated to Valdosta you are committed and won't be home for 4 days. It's the risk you take and many folks are fine with that. It's just not for me.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9451 Postby Rail Dawg » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:47 am

Heading south on I-75 past Gainesville.

Most gas stations closed.

Lots of folks out of gas.
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Although I have been a hurricane forecaster since 1980 that only means I've been wrong lots of times.

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Re: ATL: Irma: Observations,Web Cams,Local NWS Statements (NE Caribbean/Bahamas/Florida/SC/NC)

#9452 Postby norva » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:47 am

http://www.keywestharborwebcam.com/

Winds picking up in Key West...
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9453 Postby PandaCitrus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:48 am

There's going to be a tremendous reduction in wind damage if this comes in as a cat 3/cat 4 vs.Cat 5. Naples and ft. Myers have boomed in the last 10 years and has lots of new construction rated to 140mph + in the Florida building codes. These structures should do well in Cat 3 and even cat 4. The danger was in Cat 5 extreme gusts 160+ damaging the homes beyond its design specs.

Of course this is just wind and doesn't apply to storm surge or older homes not up to code. 130mph will still do lots of damage.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9454 Postby Alyono » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:49 am

captain1 wrote:Long time lurker and weather nerd here - thanks to this forum I have learned so much. I do have a question about models. I have a basic, I think, understanding of how they work. What I am curious about is how they improve. I assume they incorporate actual data from a storm after the event is over and compare that to their predictions, and thereby gain reliability going forward?


not accurate at all. The computer models simply provide a numerical approximation to the Navier-Stokes equations, with sub grid scale processes paramaterized
Last edited by Alyono on Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9455 Postby Raebie » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 am

Blown Away wrote:Image
Image
Little WNW wobble in last frame? Maybe turn starting?


Sure looks like that to me. If not a turn, a more northerly component anyway.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9456 Postby NDG » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 am

As long Irma keeps half of its circulation over water I don't see it weakening below Cat 3, its core is still in tact. It still has a chance to strengthen before making landfall in SW FL tomorrow afternoon, over some of the warmest waters in the Atlantic Basin. IMO.

Image
Image
Last edited by NDG on Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9457 Postby DTMEDIC » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 am

thundercam96 wrote:
tolakram wrote:
thundercam96 wrote:Based on some selective trends that have been showing regarding a weaker hurricane making landfall, I hope this doesn't add to the large complacency factor at hand. An estimated quarter of the states population (5 Million of ~20 million) has evacuated their residence to either another state or nearby locale. In the end, if thing landfalls as a Cat 3, it will have done a lot less damage than the Cat 4/5 they were predicting to hit. It will be great that the damage lessened and lives would be put at a considerably smaller risk throughout the entire state. But, what happens the next time something like this happens? Will the thought of "They always weaken before landfall" or "We evacuated last time and nothing big happened".


Where does one go with that? What does it matter? The forecast was the best possible, the dangers are still real, and if people want to be complacent for the next one and get themselves killed ... so be it. There's not a lot that can really be done. Keep in mind we just came out of a disaster in Houston where people were upset that an evacuation was not done. There is no such thing as the perfect solution.

I think most people know the score, understand the risks, and basically don't make a big deal out of it and so we never hear about it. Houston may have taken a big hit AND helped folks be less complacent about this one.


I understand your point tolakram. I am just disappointed when I look on social media and seeing all of the popup "news" sites speaking of this "Monstrosity Category 5 Super Hurricane" and how its going to destroy Florida/SE US..... from 10 days out. A frightening majority of the general populous take this information like it just came out of the mouth of god. Before you know it, you see friends on Facebook saying that "This storms going to hit Texas" or "There is a 245 MPH storm coming! Lookout!". These were actual quotes from friends I am connected with on social media that are very wise, knowledgeable people who should be able to discern between garbage and facts.


IMO continuous 24 hr media focus on every single movement and possibility creates hurricane fatigue with hype that feeds fear and/or complacency depending on the individual. When people are afraid they tend to look for anything to make them less so...some will jump into action, follow guidance, immediately run etc.

Some look to their past experiences and try to paint current possibilities with the same brush, despite being told this may be different. Still others look at every change in the forecast as proof that no one really knows anything and decide to just stay put. Despite the litany of folks saying you are an idiot if you don't get out, we all (should) know that depending on their individual location, home structure and ability to improve storm resistance...it may be perfectly okay in many circumstances to shelter in place.

I said all that to say...you cannot answer the question of "what happens the next time" because you cannot change human nature.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9458 Postby LAwxrgal » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 am

tolakram wrote: https://twitter.com/EricBlake12/status/906522631817527296




Eric Blake ✔ @EricBlake12
Nice graphic showing all the NHC forecasts for #Irma. Despite the small (but important) shift near #Florida, solid predictions so far!
10:20 AM - Sep 9, 2017

Image


And that is why they're the NHC. I do not envy their job one bit. Especially with people's lives literally in their hands.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9459 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:51 am

Alyono wrote:aircraft data says this is a marginal cat 3 now. That said, it could quickly become a 4 again as it approaches the Lower Keys


Agreed, I'd say around 120mph now... but that structure's still there to ramp up.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#9460 Postby captain1 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:51 am

In reply to the response to my previous question - Thanks i see I have much, much more to learn because I have no idea what that means :oops:
Last edited by captain1 on Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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