ATL: MICHAEL - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#981 Postby ozonepete » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:44 pm

chaser1 wrote:
ozonepete wrote:
SEASON_CANCELED wrote:could be my eyes..but is that a rotation over the bahamas moving towards Michael.


It's an upper level low producing some convection. I't getting stretched se to nw now and will lose its identity within the next 24 hours. Should not have any effect on Michael other than keeping the environment moist ahead of it.


Looks to be a leading edge of some deep surface to mid level surge as well. As you said Pete, no way any convection could even try to maintain any level of organization as it approaches Michael's outflow. Still, I'm wondering if this convergent low level flow might just further act as an additional catalyst for some decent squalls to come ashore along the S. Florida coastline and even up to the Cape tonight through Thursday, as it interacts with the stronger southerly flow ahead of Michael (and eventually westward offshore flow from Michael as it passes north of that latitude)?


Hey chase. :)

ULL's out over the ocean there always have some good upper level divergence somewhere in them and will produce convection anytime they get some convergence underneath. What caused convergence there is not clear - I wasn't following low level features there the last few days. Anyway it looks to me like this will start to fade as it's stretching since the stretching will reduce the upper level divergence. Also it looks like it will not come close enough to Florida before it fades to produce any significant squalls there. Just my initial take.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#982 Postby DestinHurricane » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:45 pm

So is Destin safe? And what would you guys expect in storm surge on the west side of the storm in Destin?
Last edited by DestinHurricane on Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#983 Postby cycloneye » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:45 pm

Hurricane Warning issued.

SUMMARY OF 400 PM CDT...2100 UTC...INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...22.2N 85.2W
ABOUT 30 MI...45 KM NW OF THE WESTERN TIP OF CUBA
ABOUT 520 MI...835 KM S OF APALACHICOLA FLORIDA
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...80 MPH...130 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...N OR 355 DEGREES AT 9 MPH...15 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...978 MB...28.88 INCHES


WATCHES AND WARNINGS
--------------------
CHANGES WITH THIS ADVISORY:

A Storm Surge Warning has been issued for the Gulf Coast of Florida
from the Okaloosa/Walton County Line to Anclote River.

The Storm Surge Watch has been extended west of Navarre Florida to
the Alabama/Florida border.

A Hurricane Warning has been issued for the Gulf Coast of Florida
from the Alabama/Florida border eastward to Suwannee River.

A Hurricane Watch has been issued from the Alabama/Florida border
westward to the Mississippi/Alabama border.

A Tropical Storm Warning has been issued from the Alabama/Florida
border westward to the Mississippi/Alabama border and from Suwannee
River Florida southward to Chassahowitzka Florida.

A Tropical Storm Watch has been issued from the Mississippi/Alabama
border westward to the Mouth of the Pearl River.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#984 Postby ozonepete » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:47 pm

BobHarlem wrote:
SEASON_CANCELED wrote:could be my eyes..but is that a rotation over the bahamas moving towards Michael.


You weren't the only one:

https://twitter.com/watkinstrack/status/1049392582407671814


Exactly
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#985 Postby bella_may » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:47 pm

Watches/warnings have been extended further west
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#986 Postby MississippiWx » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:48 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:So is Destin safe? And what would you guys expect in storm surge on the west side of the storm in Destin?


Destin is literally in the direct path of this hurricane. So no. You need to be preparing immediately for a major hurricane.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#987 Postby wxman57 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:50 pm

caneman wrote:Am I smoking crack or is that front already off Texas? It looks like the wind flow there is now SW to NE in looking at water vapor.
Has the NOAA jet been out to sample upper air environment, if not, when? Thanks


The front is in Texas, but up in the northern Panhandle. Does this mean you are smoking crack?
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#988 Postby wxman57 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:52 pm

chaser1 wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
chaser1 wrote:
The difference is amazing between max (Cat 3) surge near Panama City vs. Apalachca Bay. Didn't realize there'd be that much of a difference. In addition to the shallower waters further east, I suppose there's also the fact that a greater forcing of water "pile-up" would exist to the east, whereas further west along the Panhandle the increased storm surge can at least spread out a greater distance perpendicular to the coastline?


One key factor in storm surge calculations is called the "Shoaling Factor". The shoaling factor relates to the distance offshore to the 10-fathom depth (60 ft). The closer to the coast that 10-fathom depth, the less the storm surge threat. Note that for Pensacola to Panama City, the multiplier in the storm surge calculation is only about 0.4. Compare that to 1.8 in Vermilion Bay or 1.75 on the Mississippi Coast (or the 1.1 to 1.2 in Apalachee Bay). The shoaling factor is one of the more significant factors in storm surge height.


Fascinating; all the more reason I can see what a nightmare forecasting storm surge several days extended forecast in advance of a storm, considering how large the spread of shoaling that exists within a relative small distance and the difference the point of landfall would seem to make. Is that particular chart based off shoaling AND specific pressure (or sustained wind)?


The chart is based solely on the distance offshore to the 10-fathom depth. The surge equation also takes into account the pressure differential in the eye vs. the environment and the distance involved (pressure gradient). There's also forward speed and approach angle. Max sustained wind (Saffir-Simpson) isn't even part of the equation, which is why we don't use SS to estimate storm surge.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#989 Postby WAcyclone » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:54 pm

supercane4867 wrote:Eyewall wide open to the NW. Still have some work to do.

https://i.imgur.com/hcY0hQC.jpg


Note that the 36Ghz cyan ring is almost closed so it's probably not far off from having a fully closed eyewall:

Image
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#990 Postby BobHarlem » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:54 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:So is Destin safe? And what would you guys expect in storm surge on the west side of the storm in Destin?


There's a good chance Destin will get a direct hit based on several of the models. Nobody should be hanging around by the islands there. Even if it goes slightly east, bay side storm surge could still be an issue. It's too close to risk, IMHO. If folks do stay, get up somewhere at least 20-30 high.
Last edited by BobHarlem on Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#991 Postby cycloneye » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:55 pm

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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#992 Postby Airboy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:57 pm

Kermit on it's way, will be intresting to see what it finds
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#993 Postby chaser1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:57 pm

Okay, so during this brief lull and awaiting recon, riddle me this Batman! :think:

Michael will be with us for at least 3 more days (longer if maintaining T.S. intensity up to moving offshore the E. Seaboard). Leslie will, oh jeeez.... never ever leave the Atlantic LOL, and then there is 93L S. of Cape Verde (which i'd already call a T.D), which by the way Euro, HMON, CMC, and NOGAPS all take to 1002 mb or less by 72 hours.

When was the last OCTOBER date/year that we had three active storms spinning at the same time within the Atlantic Basin?? :hmm:
Last edited by chaser1 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#994 Postby tolakram » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:57 pm

Latest intensity notes

The upper-level outflow has gradually improved over Michael but it
is still somewhat restricted over the western portion of the storm.
There has been no significant change to the intensity forecast
thinking. The moderate shear that has been affecting the cyclone is
not expected to prevent strengthening while Michael moves over the
warm waters of the eastern Gulf of Mexico. Although the statistical
guidance is somewhat lower this cycle, the regional hurricane and
global models still favor steady to rapid strengthening, and the NHC
forecast is closest to the Florida State Superensemble and the HFIP
corrected consensus model.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#995 Postby GBPackMan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:So is Destin safe? And what would you guys expect in storm surge on the west side of the storm in Destin?


FWB/NV here... Personally I would avoid/leave the areas within a mile or so of the gulf as well as half mile from any of the bays and bayous. Destin being almost completely surrounded by water and low elevation, I would make plans to head at least up to Crestview or Florala for a day or two, just to be safe. The center will likely come ashore at or just east of Panama City putting us on the west side, which usually means initial storm surge but as it gets closer to landfall, it actually pulls the water out and pushes it towards the east side. I've seen Rocky Bayou and Toms Bayou and the Mobile Bay almost completely empty before when stuff like this hits east of us.

Still, there is the weaker possibility of it making that small jog west and hitting the Destin/FWB area, or even less likely Pensacola putting us on the dangerous east side. The models are coming together and currently PC looks like the most likely target for the current models.
Last edited by GBPackMan on Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#996 Postby chaser1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pm

tolakram wrote:Latest intensity notes

The upper-level outflow has gradually improved over Michael but it
is still somewhat restricted over the western portion of the storm.
There has been no significant change to the intensity forecast
thinking. The moderate shear that has been affecting the cyclone is
not expected to prevent strengthening while Michael moves over the
warm waters of the eastern Gulf of Mexico. Although the statistical
guidance is somewhat lower this cycle, the regional hurricane and
global models still favor steady to rapid strengthening, and the NHC
forecast is closest to the Florida State Superensemble and the HFIP
corrected consensus model.


I'd love to know if the Florida State Superensemble tracks Michael tightly within all other guidance at this time, or is further to the east?
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#997 Postby FLpanhandle91 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 pm

chaser1 wrote:Okay, so during this brief lull and awaiting recon, riddle me this Batman! :think:

Michael will be with us for at least 3 more days (longer if maintaining T.S. intensity up to moving offshore the E. Seaboard). Leslie will, oh jeeez.... never ever leave the Atlantic LOL, and then there is 93L S. of Cape Verde (which i'd already call a T.D), which by the way Euro, HMON, CMC, and NOGAPS all take to 1002 mb or less by 72 hours.

When was the last OCTOBER date/year that we had three active storms spinning at the same time within the Atlantic Basin?? :hmm:


Just saw your edit. Sorry! Active October for sure!
Last edited by FLpanhandle91 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#998 Postby bella_may » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 pm

I’m surprised they issued watches all the way to the LA/MS border
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#999 Postby xironman » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 pm

GBPackMan wrote:
Hypercane_Kyle wrote:
GBPackMan wrote:Intensity is dropping some for the models that just released their 18z runs:

https://imgur.com/OnwkNcs

compared to the 12z runs:

https://imgur.com/ENW4YVt


Wouldn't read too much into that; the intensity models have consistently low-balled this storm.


Easy to do when it is just a gaggle of thunderstorms, but once it actually forms into something is when the models start to do their job properly. This is why some work great for hurricanes but can't predict a likely area of non-tropical thunderstorm formation. I still see way too much cooler air making its way in as it gets closer to the panhandle to have this intensify much beyond a weak Cat 2 24-36h out.

So where is this cool air coming from? The SE is still locked into a summer pattern at mid week

Image
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#1000 Postby wxman57 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:05 pm

bella_may wrote:I’m surprised they issued watches all the way to the LA/MS border


It's just a precaution. They are not expecting TS winds that far west. People there should just continue to monitor the storm.
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