ATL: CLAUDETTE - Remnants - Discussion

[wxman57]

Winds near Claudette's "center" are in the 5-10 kt range. Upgraded due to a straight-line wind in squalls well east of the poorly-defined center. Twice upgraded while the center was over land. Is that a record?

[Sciencerocks]

[HurricaneEnzo]

I'm glad that there was no damage in my area but with that being said this was the most pathetic 'tropical storm' of all time for my locale. Only one line of showers moved through. Did drop about .9" of rain relatively quickly but winds never gusted above 19mph.

Thoughts with everybody on the Gulf Coast though they did get some pretty significant impacts.

[Sciencerocks]

[captainbarbossa19]

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2707/1nXY9L.gif

Looks very disorganized. Not sure how this can be a tropical cyclone now because convection appears to be displaced from the LLC. There must be organized deep convection for it to be still a TC.

https://www.weather.gov/mob/tropical_definitions

[Ubuntwo]

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2707/1nXY9L.gif

Looks very disorganized. Not sure how this can be a tropical cyclone now because convection appears to be displaced from the LLC. There must be organized deep convection for it to be still a TC.

https://www.weather.gov/mob/tropical_definitions

There have been many TCs with far less organized convection, and further displaced circulations. If there's anything disqualifying Claudette from being a TC it would be definition of its circ:

As Claudette continues to accelerate, its increased forward speed
could result in the low-level wind field opening up into a trough,
which would result in the cessation of the system as a tropical
cyclone.

[BobHarlem]

Claudette looks more organized now than it ever did in gulf. Heck the convection blowup *currently* in the Gulf looks more organized than Claudette did then, and it's probably just trail wake divergence from Claudette.

[crimi481]

The "thing" in NW Gulf is exploding?

[Steve]

The "thing" in NW Gulf is exploding?

No model support for it though. Looks like an active boundary and part of the feed into Claudette or leftover feed if it's not reaching it anymore. It would take a couple of days for this to dissipate or a stronger front to sweep it out.

[USTropics]

The blowup of convection in the NGOM is due to divergent flow aloft:



At the lower-levels, we have mostly northerly flow:


Daytime heating enhances the moisture in the rising air column, which causes instability, and we get this blow up convection. Nothing happening at the surface though, and we'll see this largely wane overnight:


The pattern will remain through the next 24-48 hours, so expect a similar blowup of convection due to increased instability tomorrow:

[StPeteMike]

Was just going to ask if the blob over the northern GOM could possibly pull a Fay 2020 and form once off the east coast. I know there’s no model support for it, but neither did Bill really.

[captainbarbossa19]

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2707/1nXY9L.gif

Looks very disorganized. Not sure how this can be a tropical cyclone now because convection appears to be displaced from the LLC. There must be organized deep convection for it to be still a TC.

https://www.weather.gov/mob/tropical_definitions

There have been many TCs with far less organized convection, and further displaced circulations. If there's anything disqualifying Claudette from being a TC it would be definition of its circ:

As Claudette continues to accelerate, its increased forward speed
could result in the low-level wind field opening up into a trough,
which would result in the cessation of the system as a tropical
cyclone.

According to the NWS, a TC must have "organized deep convection with a closed wind circulation about a well-defined center." Saying it is still a TC does not make sense to me if you go by their definitions. At the minimum, the NHC is making it more confusing to understand how to classify tropical systems. It seems like in the past, it was easier to understand the reasoning behind naming a storm. If an organization creates a definition for classifying something, I think that they should not waiver. Otherwise, they are just guidelines.

I feel that this conversation may quickly be moving off the subject, so if any of the moderators feel that this should be moved, please let me know.

[Sciencerocks]

[chaser1]

Looks very disorganized. Not sure how this can be a tropical cyclone now because convection appears to be displaced from the LLC. There must be organized deep convection for it to be still a TC.

https://www.weather.gov/mob/tropical_definitions

There have been many TCs with far less organized convection, and further displaced circulations. If there's anything disqualifying Claudette from being a TC it would be definition of its circ:

As Claudette continues to accelerate, its increased forward speed
could result in the low-level wind field opening up into a trough,
which would result in the cessation of the system as a tropical
cyclone.

According to the NWS, a TC must have "organized deep convection with a closed wind circulation about a well-defined center." Saying it is still a TC does not make sense to me if you go by their definitions. At the minimum, the NHC is making it more confusing to understand how to classify tropical systems. It seems like in the past, it was easier to understand the reasoning behind naming a storm. If an organization creates a definition for classifying something, I think that they should not waiver. Otherwise, they are just guidelines.

I feel that this conversation may quickly be moving off the subject, so if any of the moderators feel that this should be moved, please let me know.

Claudette kinda looks like a beaten horse. As for the excellent point you make..... well, THAT dead horse has been increasingly beaten for some years now LOL. Back in their day, I can't imagine any way that Dr. Neil Frank or Bob Sheets would've named Claudette a T.S.

[Ubuntwo]

There have been many TCs with far less organized convection, and further displaced circulations. If there's anything disqualifying Claudette from being a TC it would be definition of its circ:

According to the NWS, a TC must have "organized deep convection with a closed wind circulation about a well-defined center." Saying it is still a TC does not make sense to me if you go by their definitions. At the minimum, the NHC is making it more confusing to understand how to classify tropical systems. It seems like in the past, it was easier to understand the reasoning behind naming a storm. If an organization creates a definition for classifying something, I think that they should not waiver. Otherwise, they are just guidelines.

I feel that this conversation may quickly be moving off the subject, so if any of the moderators feel that this should be moved, please let me know.

Claudette kinda looks like a beaten horse. As for the excellent point you make..... well, THAT dead horse has been increasingly beaten for some years now LOL. Back in their day, I can't imagine any way that Dr. Neil Frank or Bob Sheets would've named Claudette a T.S.

There's always post season analysis and I imagine the TCR for Claudette will have some pretty significant changes. To the latter point - yeah, it's been done to death - but from the late 70s to early 90s the NHC designated numerous highly sheared, disorganized, and fringe systems that would be more than borderline even by today's classification standards.

[chaser1]

According to the NWS, a TC must have "organized deep convection with a closed wind circulation about a well-defined center." Saying it is still a TC does not make sense to me if you go by their definitions. At the minimum, the NHC is making it more confusing to understand how to classify tropical systems. It seems like in the past, it was easier to understand the reasoning behind naming a storm. If an organization creates a definition for classifying something, I think that they should not waiver. Otherwise, they are just guidelines.

I feel that this conversation may quickly be moving off the subject, so if any of the moderators feel that this should be moved, please let me know.

Claudette kinda looks like a beaten horse. As for the excellent point you make..... well, THAT dead horse has been increasingly beaten for some years now LOL. Back in their day, I can't imagine any way that Dr. Neil Frank or Bob Sheets would've named Claudette a T.S.

There's always post season analysis and I imagine the TCR for Claudette will have some pretty significant changes. To the latter point - yeah, it's been done to death - but from the late 70s to early 90s the NHC designated numerous highly sheared, disorganized, and fringe systems that would be more than borderline even by today's classification standards.

You could well be correct but I'd stack the worst tropical abortions post-2000 against any I can recall from the 70's & 80's. Which 3 or 4 from that period were the worst offenses that you were referring to?

[Ubuntwo]

Claudette kinda looks like a beaten horse. As for the excellent point you make..... well, THAT dead horse has been increasingly beaten for some years now LOL. Back in their day, I can't imagine any way that Dr. Neil Frank or Bob Sheets would've named Claudette a T.S.

There's always post season analysis and I imagine the TCR for Claudette will have some pretty significant changes. To the latter point - yeah, it's been done to death - but from the late 70s to early 90s the NHC designated numerous highly sheared, disorganized, and fringe systems that would be more than borderline even by today's classification standards.

You could well be correct but I'd stack the worst tropical abortions post-2000 against any I can recall from the 70's & 80's. Which 3 or 4 from that period were the worst offenses that you were referring to?

Gustav '84, Dean '83 were very fringe. Henri '85 and Beryl '88 were little more than naked swirls. The depressions from that period are on a whole 'nother level, just look at 1987.

Some systems can clearly be classed as tropical, others nontropical. Hybrid and subtropical classifications fill some of the gap between the two, but what about the rest? What about warm core systems that have very shallow convection or are highly sheared? How about those with broad or elongated circulations with deep convection? The line has to be drawn somewhere when using a binary system of classification, so there will always be ambiguity.

[Ubuntwo]

RIP Claudette. Now an open trough.

[cycloneye]

See you in six years unless this name is retired.

Recent scatterometer data show that the system has opened up into a
northwest to southeast-oriented trough. Therefore Claudette has
dissipated as a tropical cyclone and this is the last advisory. The
remnants of Claudette should continue to move rapidly
east-northeastward and weaken over the next day or so.

[cheezyWXguy]

Claudette kinda looks like a beaten horse. As for the excellent point you make..... well, THAT dead horse has been increasingly beaten for some years now LOL. Back in their day, I can't imagine any way that Dr. Neil Frank or Bob Sheets would've named Claudette a T.S.

There's always post season analysis and I imagine the TCR for Claudette will have some pretty significant changes. To the latter point - yeah, it's been done to death - but from the late 70s to early 90s the NHC designated numerous highly sheared, disorganized, and fringe systems that would be more than borderline even by today's classification standards.

You could well be correct but I'd stack the worst tropical abortions post-2000 against any I can recall from the 70's & 80's. Which 3 or 4 from that period were the worst offenses that you were referring to?

Cheers to that. Grace 2003 comes to mind as a 2000s icon for worst organized TS. Spent the the majority of its classified life with recon unable to find a center.