ATL: IAN - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1061 Postby ThetaE » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:55 pm

ThetaE wrote:
Emmett_Brown wrote:Glancing at recon wind barbs, Ian still looks like sharp trough axis. Currently the "center" is actually an elongated ellipse from 13N to 15N along 75.6 W, so no real west winds yet. The northern vort along the axis has lower pressures, so that could be where his center ends up.


This is true at the mid-levels (well, at flight level-- 850mb, still pretty low), but clicking through various dropsondes reveals that this northern spot is the location of a pretty robust low-level circulation. Winds still shift with height in the dropsonde profiles, and the drops SW of the recon-marked center have a far more westerly component near the surface than aloft. In addition to being the location of lowest pressure, this center also seems to be consistent with where the (naked) LLC got sucked into the convection earlier this morning.

The flight level winds to the south seem to be the remnants of the convection displaced from the LLC yesterday, and so I'd argue (given the lower surface pressure and the more vigorous convection to the north) that this southern wind shift isn't long for this world.


This is not an easy thing to visualize, so I went through each dropsonde and annotated the map with the surface wind barbs. The LLC may be a bit elongated to the south, but I think it's pretty clear where the strongest low level vorticity is.

Image
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1062 Postby Sciencerocks » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:55 pm

Image
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1063 Postby galaxy401 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:57 pm

Looks like the center might be in that dry slot in the middle. I think I see some rotation there. Recon seems to be flying there now.
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Got my eyes on moving right into Hurricane Alley: Florida.

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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1064 Postby skyline385 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:57 pm

SoupBone wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:figured thats where it was. as I mentioned earler.. they need to focus on the 13.5- 13.9N and 76w ish area.


I'm curious about stuff like this. Do these pilots have people back at HQ recommending areas to look for the center? Or are they actively doing that while flying? I've been on Kermit twice, and I recall the dropsonde cannon and other monitoring equipment, but I don't recall what else they had on board.

Seems they occasionally miss areas that maybe they should have checked out.


They have a radar onboard which is what they use from my understanding. You can see it on the Flynomous and Hurricane Hunter posts.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1065 Postby Aric Dunn » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:59 pm

ThetaE wrote:
ThetaE wrote:
Emmett_Brown wrote:Glancing at recon wind barbs, Ian still looks like sharp trough axis. Currently the "center" is actually an elongated ellipse from 13N to 15N along 75.6 W, so no real west winds yet. The northern vort along the axis has lower pressures, so that could be where his center ends up.


This is true at the mid-levels (well, at flight level-- 850mb, still pretty low), but clicking through various dropsondes reveals that this northern spot is the location of a pretty robust low-level circulation. Winds still shift with height in the dropsonde profiles, and the drops SW of the recon-marked center have a far more westerly component near the surface than aloft. In addition to being the location of lowest pressure, this center also seems to be consistent with where the (naked) LLC got sucked into the convection earlier this morning.

The flight level winds to the south seem to be the remnants of the convection displaced from the LLC yesterday, and so I'd argue (given the lower surface pressure and the more vigorous convection to the north) that this southern wind shift isn't long for this world.


This is not an easy thing to visualize, so I went through each dropsonde and annotated the map with the surface wind barbs. The LLC may be a bit elongated to the south, but I think it's pretty clear where the strongest low level vorticity is.

https://i.imgur.com/34x92K4.png


Start focusing on farther west with the convection building. last set showing increased SE flow into the convection. anything currently at the surface can easily be taken over at this point that is farther east.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1066 Postby floridasun » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:02 pm

let see what wx57 say about finding by hurr hunter
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1067 Postby MississippiWx » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:03 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:
ThetaE wrote:
ThetaE wrote:
This is true at the mid-levels (well, at flight level-- 850mb, still pretty low), but clicking through various dropsondes reveals that this northern spot is the location of a pretty robust low-level circulation. Winds still shift with height in the dropsonde profiles, and the drops SW of the recon-marked center have a far more westerly component near the surface than aloft. In addition to being the location of lowest pressure, this center also seems to be consistent with where the (naked) LLC got sucked into the convection earlier this morning.

The flight level winds to the south seem to be the remnants of the convection displaced from the LLC yesterday, and so I'd argue (given the lower surface pressure and the more vigorous convection to the north) that this southern wind shift isn't long for this world.


This is not an easy thing to visualize, so I went through each dropsonde and annotated the map with the surface wind barbs. The LLC may be a bit elongated to the south, but I think it's pretty clear where the strongest low level vorticity is.

https://i.imgur.com/34x92K4.png


Start focusing on farther west with the convection building. last set showing increased SE flow into the convection. anything currently at the surface can easily be taken over at this point that is farther east.


Have to wonder if this means a small win for the GFS. These short term developments are huge in the eventual track.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1068 Postby Aric Dunn » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:04 pm

MississippiWx wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:
ThetaE wrote:
This is not an easy thing to visualize, so I went through each dropsonde and annotated the map with the surface wind barbs. The LLC may be a bit elongated to the south, but I think it's pretty clear where the strongest low level vorticity is.

https://i.imgur.com/34x92K4.png


Start focusing on farther west with the convection building. last set showing increased SE flow into the convection. anything currently at the surface can easily be taken over at this point that is farther east.


Have to wonder if this means a small win for the GFS. These short term developments are huge in the eventual track.


Definitely a win for the HWRF.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1069 Postby tolakram » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:05 pm

Windex view
Image
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1070 Postby floridasun » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:13 pm

hunter didnt drop dropsonde in southern center what i see their going to northern area
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1071 Postby tolakram » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:16 pm

200 frame saved loop
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1072 Postby cycloneye » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:24 pm

A. 09L (IAN)

B. 24/1730Z

C. 14.4N

D. 75.3W

E. THREE/GOES-E

F. T3.0/3.0

G. IR/EIR/VIS

H. REMARKS...A LOW LEVEL CENTER 1/3 DEGREES INTO AN AREA OF COLD OVERCAST
RESULTS IN A DT OF 3.5. THE MET IS 2.5. THE PT IS 3.0. THE FT IS BASED
ON THE PT DUE TO UNCERTAINTY IN CENTER LOCATION.

I. ADDL POSITIONS

NIL


...GATLING
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1073 Postby ThetaE » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:25 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:Start focusing on farther west with the convection building. last set showing increased SE flow into the convection. anything currently at the surface can easily be taken over at this point that is farther east.


Yeah, actually, I agree that the stuff further west could tug on the LLC. Looks like recon is finding some actually decent winds there, anyway. My point was mostly about why there weren't any (flight level) westerlies to the south, and why the wind shift down there is probably unimportant.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1074 Postby wxman57 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:28 pm

Consensus is now big bend of FL. Look for NHC to shift its track across the eastern Gulf a little to the west.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1075 Postby NDG » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:29 pm

With the outflow setting up out into all directions this thing is going to quickly intensify once the LLC aligns itself with the MLC.

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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1076 Postby SouthernBreeze » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:30 pm

My Accuweather "Local Ian Tracker" shows it still as Cat 1 while inland & NW of Savannah! My Thur forecast is 48 sustained & 91 gusts. Hopefully wishing for that to change, i'm in a mobile home
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1077 Postby SoupBone » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:34 pm

NDG wrote:With the outflow setting up out into all directions this thing is going to quickly intensify once the LLC aligns itself with the MLC.

https://i.imgur.com/zJG4Qgr.gif


Yeah it absolutely has the look already.
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1078 Postby ConvergenceZone » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:35 pm

wxman57 wrote:Consensus is now big bend of FL. Look for NHC to shift its track across the eastern Gulf a little to the west.


Does that mean you are changing your mind regarding landfall around Tampa?
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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1079 Postby NDG » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:37 pm

Very important step to enter the right information into the models every 6 hrs instead of every 12 hrs.

 https://twitter.com/NWSSpokane/status/1573696830818263048


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Re: ATL: IAN - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1080 Postby Blown Away » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:46 pm

wxman57 wrote:Consensus is now big bend of FL. Look for NHC to shift its track across the eastern Gulf a little to the west.


Big Bend is a crossroads for the modeling, very unlikely historically for a hurricane landfall from Cedar Key to Apalachicola. Apalachicola to the W or Tampa to the S will be the ultimate track for Ian. JMHO
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