Hurricane Modification
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Hurricane Modification
First, before we begin the discussion, read this thread from an Australian weather forum that I post at occasionally:
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/cgi-bin/u ... 2;t=000313
Now, what on earth? Okay, simply put, as I stated in my reply, any type of hurricane modification so that they will be weaker/dissipated would end up in an imbalance of the heat energy for the earth...where the results could be quite problematic.
Now, comments welcome.
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/cgi-bin/u ... 2;t=000313
Now, what on earth? Okay, simply put, as I stated in my reply, any type of hurricane modification so that they will be weaker/dissipated would end up in an imbalance of the heat energy for the earth...where the results could be quite problematic.
Now, comments welcome.
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Let's visit Einstein... E=MC2 and look at the bigger picture here. Energy does not dissappear, it only changes form/shape/location. So, screw with weather in one area, the effects will simply transform.... i.e. that week of rain on the East Coast last month producing record rainful in the NE, was drawing a flow of moisture from the tropics to fuel it, along the stationary front. If tropical weather patterns are screwed with, the energy will need to be rained out elsewhere.
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theworld wrote:Let's visit Einstein... E=MC2 and look at the bigger picture here. Energy does not dissappear, it only changes form/shape/location. So, screw with weather in one area, the effects will simply transform.... i.e. that week of rain on the East Coast last month producing record rainful in the NE, was drawing a flow of moisture from the tropics to fuel it, along the stationary front. If tropical weather patterns are screwed with, the energy will need to be rained out elsewhere.
Um... what does this have to do with E = mC^2? We're really looking at conservation of energy, no where in the tropics does energy and mass interchange.
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curtadams wrote:Heat transfers just fine from a number of non-hurricane methods. When winter comes, all areas outside of the deep tropics cool regardless of whether thay are having hurricanes at the time. Hurricanes speed up the process but they're not necessary.
Pretty bold statement that hurricanes aren't necessary. No offense Curt but it's statements like that that show the arrogance of man and his logic over nature and her balance. I'll trust that nature created hurricanes for a reason. Once we stop screwing with nature and learn to live in harmony with it we'll all be a lot better off.
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quandary wrote:theworld wrote:Let's visit Einstein... E=MC2 and look at the bigger picture here. Energy does not dissappear, it only changes form/shape/location. So, screw with weather in one area, the effects will simply transform.... i.e. that week of rain on the East Coast last month producing record rainful in the NE, was drawing a flow of moisture from the tropics to fuel it, along the stationary front. If tropical weather patterns are screwed with, the energy will need to be rained out elsewhere.
Um... what does this have to do with E = mC^2? We're really looking at conservation of energy, no where in the tropics does energy and mass interchange.
Physics has nothing to do with overall patterns ? Quandary, you dissappoint me. May I suggest you a PBS documentary that was done on Einstein. I assure you that you wil clearly see the connection, and, perhaps you will have an epiphany on the greater scheme of things happening in your world/universe.

There no seperation of energy and mass. All existence is intertwined, not seperate independent universes.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/
"Einstein's formula also accounts for the heat in our planet's crust, which is kept warm by a steady barrage of E = mc2 conversions occurring within unstable radioactive elements such as uranium and thorium. "When they decay, some of the mass is lost and a little energy is created, and that keeps the crust warm," says John Rigden, a physicist at Washington University in St. Louis and author of Einstein 1905: The Standard of Greatness (Harvard, 2005). "So the temperature of the outer Earth, the crustal matter, is directly related to E = mc2."
Quandary, heat my dear is the reason a Hurricane exists (e.g. our sun creates heat, warms our oceans etc...)
Last edited by theworld on Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Downdraft wrote:curtadams wrote:Heat transfers just fine from a number of non-hurricane methods. When winter comes, all areas outside of the deep tropics cool regardless of whether thay are having hurricanes at the time. Hurricanes speed up the process but they're not necessary.
Pretty bold statement that hurricanes aren't necessary. No offense Curt but it's statements like that that show the arrogance of man and his logic over nature and her balance. I'll trust that nature created hurricanes for a reason. Once we stop screwing with nature and learn to live in harmony with it we'll all be a lot better off.
It's simple fact. There are areas without hurricanes and, even in the North Atlantic, years with almost no storms (as few as one). The oceans cool with winter in all those circumstances. If you claim hurricanes are necessary to move heat, find one place where the absence of hurricanes prevents the area from cooling. Good luck, you won't find it.
It's probably not practical to stop hurricanes but there wouldn't be any spooky "revenge of Mother Nature" if we did. Hurricanes are just organizations of thunderstorms and thunderstorms transfer heat just as well if they aren't organized into hurricanes. Don't you notice all that activity in the Caribbean not related to hurricanes? There were two huge outbreaks E of Beta.
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curtadams wrote:Downdraft wrote:curtadams wrote:Heat transfers just fine from a number of non-hurricane methods. When winter comes, all areas outside of the deep tropics cool regardless of whether thay are having hurricanes at the time. Hurricanes speed up the process but they're not necessary.
Pretty bold statement that hurricanes aren't necessary. No offense Curt but it's statements like that that show the arrogance of man and his logic over nature and her balance. I'll trust that nature created hurricanes for a reason. Once we stop screwing with nature and learn to live in harmony with it we'll all be a lot better off.
It's simple fact. There are areas without hurricanes and, even in the North Atlantic, years with almost no storms (as few as one). The oceans cool with winter in all those circumstances. If you claim hurricanes are necessary to move heat, find one place where the absence of hurricanes prevents the area from cooling. Good luck, you won't find it.
It's probably not practical to stop hurricanes but there wouldn't be any spooky "revenge of Mother Nature" if we did. Hurricanes are just organizations of thunderstorms and thunderstorms transfer heat just as well if they aren't organized into hurricanes. Don't you notice all that activity in the Caribbean not related to hurricanes? There were two huge outbreaks E of Beta.
It's a simple fact that Hurricanes do exist, in a region(s) where heat builds up during the warmer seasons. It's not that they are necesary to move the heat, but rather the simple fact is that they do serve that purpose, and form out of those 'little organizations' outbursts of energy. Mother Nature will not have revenge per-see, but she will find a way to transfer that energy some other way if not by Hurricane.
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hurricane modification goes back to Air Force dry ice insertion experiments in 1947. The government gave up the idea in the 60's citing very problematic legal ramifications (such as the examples given above: that the energy involved would simply transfer elsewhere in other potentially damaging forms -- the consequent litigation would be immense). But now there is some stirring of sentiment to re-inaugurate some kind of modification: iodine crystals, oiling sea surfaces to retard SSTs, etc. Accuweather's Joe Bastardi is a recent advocate of hurricane modification. Don't think it's gonna happen. Modification is also part of the costs-of-living-on-the-shore argument advanced by insurance companies, some politicians, and others bearing risks. The right side of this argument is to pursue rational precautions in hurricane zones. Don't settle and build in these exposed places! Hurricane modification is also, of course, a continuation of the millenial dream of man to totally control his environment and to produce an utterly stablized living space. Again: aint gonna happen.
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quandary wrote:I guess it comes back to percentages. What percentage of the energy that is shifted around the world is shifted by hurricanes? Beyond this, what amount of this energy would be replaceable without hurricanes?
Energy is not replaced (e.g. mass does not lose energy and evergy does not lose mass) If you boil water to steam, and covert that steam back to water, the quantity remains identical. There is no more energy or mass than there ever was, it only transforms. Percentages do not apply.
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I think he's talking about the percentage of energy exchange in terms of the role of hurricanes in the redistribution of energy around the world. Unequal solar heating leads to unequal energy distribution, higher at the equator and less at the poles. This is what drives the synoptic and global weather systems/patterns. Removing hurricanes from the process will remove one more way by which the earth tries to equalize this energy difference. We very well may end up with stronger extratropical mid-latitude storms, which could cause just as much damage as hurricanes. Nor'Easters could be worse, severe weather outbreaks in the Plains could be more severe and frequent (owing to higher low-level moisture in the Gulf that would have released latent heat and fallen as rain in a tropical cyclone instead), severe flooding events could be more signficant for the same reason (richer low-level moisture, etc). It's all about energy distribution, and the earth WILL find still find a way to equalize this, one way (hurricanes) or another.
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WxGuy1 wrote:I think he's talking about the percentage of energy exchange in terms of the role of hurricanes in the redistribution of energy around the world. Unequal solar heating leads to unequal energy distribution, higher at the equator and less at the poles. This is what drives the synoptic and global weather systems/patterns. Removing hurricanes from the process will remove one more way by which the earth tries to equalize this energy difference. We very well may end up with stronger extratropical mid-latitude storms, which could cause just as much damage as hurricanes. Nor'Easters could be worse, severe weather outbreaks in the Plains could be more severe and frequent (owing to higher low-level moisture in the Gulf that would have released latent heat and fallen as rain in a tropical cyclone instead), severe flooding events could be more signficant for the same reason (richer low-level moisture, etc). It's all about energy distribution, and the earth WILL find still find a way to equalize this, one way (hurricanes) or another.
Exactly my point. Thanks.
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