500,000 March for the Rights of Illegals in Los Angeles, etc

[Skywatch_NC]

i don't see them wanting to learn english...

They want their children to learn English.

Just because some residents in some left-wing states wish to skip teaching kids English does not mean that's what the immigrants want.

What are you saying by left-wing states??

[greeng13]

i don't see them wanting to learn english...

They want their children to learn English.

Just because some residents in some left-wing states wish to skip teaching kids English does not mean that's what the immigrants want.

you avoided my question which was :"do you care to back up that statement?"

here is the statement:

And despite the hype, this is true of the vast majority of Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal, as well

[bvigal]

Obviously gtalum hasn't heard about all the 'alternative' schools, special language teachers, etc. our taxpayer dollars are paying to teach, for instance MATH in Spanish, etc. so students can get educated without learning English first. Something that wasn't provided, nor expected, even 3 generations ago.

Read up on obtaining U.S. citizenship. You must learn English to do so, and it has always been thus. Visas can only be renewed for so long. One either becomes a US citizen, or eventually leaves (unless, of course, your are in the United States illegally). That is the purpose of the statutes, I've read them many times, have you???

Sorry, I don't mean to sound snotty, and I know I do. But I hear so much crap on tv and some in print media and it's just some reporter regurgitating information from a favored, yet biased source. Most people in media these days don't have the time, must less the intelligence, to really research anything. Besides, why do it, when no one cares if everything is innaccurate, misleading, or downright BRAINWASHING, which is in some cases, unarguably, a major goal of a 'news' story. After all, if proven facts and accuracy were the goal, I know of dozens of illustrious media people who would have been fired long ago.

Hmmm, when's the last time you even heard that term: BRAINWASHING. I think today it's politically incorrect. Hey everyone, take your brain back from the PC-police, before you don't have one any more.

[gtalum]

What are you saying by left-wing states??

California, mostly.

[gtalum]

you avoided my question which was :"do you care to back up that statement?"

No, I didn't avoid your question. I chose not to address it. There is no way to prove what immigrants want or don't want. Just like you, I was engaging in speculation.

[gtalum]

Hmmm, when's the last time you even heard that term: BRAINWASHING. I think today it's politically incorrect. Hey everyone, take your brain back from the PC-police, before you don't have one any more.

Good advice.

[Gtmalacd]

Attention please

TO ALL ILLEGALS: PLEASE REPORT TO IMMIGRATION SO THAT YOUR CITIZENSHIP CAN BE PROCESSED AND YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO GET PEOPLE TO MARCH FOR YOU. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO STAND IN LINE AS MANY MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE TO GET CITIZENSHIP THEN PLEASE TURN AROUND AND GO BACK HOME
...ah hem thank you for your attention

Well, I was perusing through this board and could not help myself look at this one with such disdain. I am still wondering why you guys dispise illegals. I would like to know how many Americans would do what the illegals do? Not very many, if at all.

[Thierry_Gironde]

I went to high school in the SF Bay Area in California from 1998-2001, and I don't recall any alternative schools or students without English speaking skills being allowed to opt out of ESL--maybe it's different now? Back then it was an absolute requirement, but was, and I suspect still is, ineffective because it's bogged by down politics and the fundamental, pedagogical difficulties of teaching another language (English) to students who may not all speak the same language themselves.

Someone mentioned something about mathematics classes taught in Spanish or something; that's kind of a unique issue because, as a number of linguists and psycholinguists have noticed, even after gaining fluency in a second language, a person still tends mentally use their native language for counting and such. I still count and recite phone numbers and such to myself in French, so I can understand the thinking behind such a class, regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

I agree that those seeking to immigrate should at least have a functional grasp of English, but in some cases that's not possible; an asylum seeker who leaves his/her country in fear and desperation would likely have more to worry about. Also, it might be the case that English education is not available to some; they may have lived in an isolated town, could not afford to attend school, or perhaps trying to secure the basic necessities for themselves/family took precedence?

I do not think though that increasing border patrols, a fence, etc really addresses the issue. To stop illegal immigration, it would be best to confront the reasons it occurs--that is, why do they leave, what are they looking for? If there is no financial opportunity for them at home, and they see crossing the border as their only chance, they'll cross even at risk of death--border patrols and such won't stop it.

I suppose I have mixed feelings about the protests; it's great to see people engaged in an issue, though I may not agree with all of the reasons, but they're pointless because they seek to treat the symptoms of the problem instead of getting to the cause. Yes, illegal immigrants have broken the law, but they should certainly be treated respectfully and with dignity; however, instead of putting so much energy into debate on the issue here, I wonder if it would not be a better use of energy to advocate for improved economic, working, and social conditions...I guess in this case within Mexico. If there is opportunity at home, why go elsewhere? I'm not sure I am writing too clearly...ugh.

Someone mentioned political correctness...heh. Despite my tendency towards extreme liberalism, I find the PC thing disturbing and it really highlights the basic issue of leftist thought--that it's somewhat tyrannical in nature, and that leftists will never be satisfied, there will always be some new cause celebre. For example, maybe in the future they won't find warning labels on alcoholic drinks to be enough, so they ban advertising it, but even that may not be enough, so they may introduce a law that puts an upper limit on alcohol content, etc. I know this is a bit off topic, but I just thought I'd share. Wow, this turned into a bit of a long one...

[gtalum]

Basically, just like with the "War" on (Some) Drugs, we have created an entire class of criminals who should not be classed as such. The same people who are now illegals will come here, regardless of what we do to try to stop them.

[SouthFloridawx]

Basically, just liek with the "War" onm (Some) Drugs, we have created an entire class of criminals who should not be classed as such. The same people who are now illegals will com ehere, regardless of what we do to try to stop them.

Good point

[Gtmalacd]

I went to high school in the SF Bay Area in California from 1998-2001, and I don't recall any alternative schools or students without English speaking skills being allowed to opt out of ESL--maybe it's different now? Back then it was an absolute requirement, but was, and I suspect still is, ineffective because it's bogged by down politics and the fundamental, pedagogical difficulties of teaching another language (English) to students who may not all speak the same language themselves.

Someone mentioned something about mathematics classes taught in Spanish or something; that's kind of a unique issue because, as a number of linguists and psycholinguists have noticed, even after gaining fluency in a second language, a person still tends mentally use their native language for counting and such. I still count and recite phone numbers and such to myself in French, so I can understand the thinking behind such a class, regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

I agree that those seeking to immigrate should at least have a functional grasp of English, but in some cases that's not possible; an asylum seeker who leaves his/her country in fear and desperation would likely have more to worry about. Also, it might be the case that English education is not available to some; they may have lived in an isolated town, could not afford to attend school, or perhaps trying to secure the basic necessities for themselves/family took precedence?

I do not think though that increasing border patrols, a fence, etc really addresses the issue. To stop illegal immigration, it would be best to confront the reasons it occurs--that is, why do they leave, what are they looking for? If there is no financial opportunity for them at home, and they see crossing the border as their only chance, they'll cross even at risk of death--border patrols and such won't stop it.

I suppose I have mixed feelings about the protests; it's great to see people engaged in an issue, though I may not agree with all of the reasons, but they're pointless because they seek to treat the symptoms of the problem instead of getting to the cause. Yes, illegal immigrants have broken the law, but they should certainly be treated respectfully and with dignity; however, instead of putting so much energy into debate on the issue here, I wonder if it would not be a better use of energy to advocate for improved economic, working, and social conditions...I guess in this case within Mexico. If there is opportunity at home, why go elsewhere? I'm not sure I am writing too clearly...ugh.

Someone mentioned political correctness...heh. Despite my tendency towards extreme liberalism, I find the PC thing disturbing and it really highlights the basic issue of leftist thought--that it's somewhat tyrannical in nature, and that leftists will never be satisfied, there will always be some new cause celebre. For example, maybe in the future they won't find warning labels on alcoholic drinks to be enough, so they ban advertising it, but even that may not be enough, so they may introduce a law that puts an upper limit on alcohol content, etc. I know this is a bit off topic, but I just thought I'd share. Wow, this turned into a bit of a long one...

I like your reasonings. However, border control is a good way to go, but in this case give whomever wants to work a right to work visa. Also, if we took all the people on WELFARE and put them on the fields to take the illegals space or for that matter put them any type of work they do, as long as they are off Welfare. Let's see how long that would last. But good write up.

[Gtmalacd]

Basically, just like with the "War" on (Some) Drugs, we have created an entire class of criminals who should not be classed as such. The same people who are now illegals will come here, regardless of what we do to try to stop them.

But who's fault is that the illegals? Instead of classifying every undocumented worker lets try and resolve the issues by implementing a good secure border, but still allowing those that want to work. It is a huge task that has gone out of control, and by simply ignoring the issue, it will only get worse.

[greeng13]

I don't necessarily despise them...I am just sick of seeing many American jobs going to someone who will take less pay. if less pay is given and no taxes are paid then i guess they make just as much as someone who gets paid more but HAS TO pay taxes!

if they want to move here because there is "a better life" and they take our money tax-free and send it down to their relatives whereby it leaves our economy altogether and they use our federally funded health care system (for which they have not paid into)

then yes...it makes me madder than h^^^!!

some people/Americans would do what the illegals do but because they would want more money to do it (especially since they ARE PAYING TAXES ON THAT $$$$) they do not get the opportunity to do it anymore!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE CALLED "ILLEGAL" BECAUSE THEY get this....BROKE THE LAW!!!

[gtalum]

But the law is a stupid law. Change the law, and they'r eno longer illegal immigrants. Then you can more easily tax their incomes.

[Gtmalacd]

I don't necessarily despise them...I am just sick of seeing many American jobs going to someone who will take less pay. if less pay is given and no taxes are paid then i guess they make just as much as someone who gets paid more but HAS TO pay taxes!

if they want to move here because there is "a better life" and they take our money tax-free and send it down to their relatives whereby it leaves our economy altogether and they use our federally funded health care system (for which they have not paid into)

then yes...it makes me madder than h^^^!!

some people/Americans would do what the illegals do but because they would want more money to do it (especially since they ARE PAYING TAXES ON THAT $$$$) they do not get the opportunity to do it anymore!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE CALLED "ILLEGAL" BECAUSE THEY get this....BROKE THE LAW!!!

I'll tell you what and I want your honest answer on this. If you are going to get mad at the illegals, then would it not make sense to vent your anger at India, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Central America and all those countries that U.S. countries use cheap labor to produce the goods you use here? I think your venting your frustrations the wrong way.

[greeng13]

How is it a "stupid law" if every other country in the world has it or one comparable to it? personally (and i think you'd agree with me gtalum) i do not want a "one nation world" which in effect is your answer. if you mistrust the gov't now just think of what would happen then!

if i wanted to move to Europe...permanently...i would have to go through a process to LEGALLY live and work in Europe.

My friend who lives in S. Korea teaching English married a girl from Thailand. Because she is from Thailand she cannot get a job in S. Korea...because of the fact that she is NOT A CITIZEN OF THAT COUNTRY.

on the same token why don't we just call all those in China who make all of our goods now "Americans"? Because it is a stupid law that they are Chinese over there and we are Americans over here....sounds pretty dumb right?

[greeng13]

I don't necessarily despise them...I am just sick of seeing many American jobs going to someone who will take less pay. if less pay is given and no taxes are paid then i guess they make just as much as someone who gets paid more but HAS TO pay taxes!

if they want to move here because there is "a better life" and they take our money tax-free and send it down to their relatives whereby it leaves our economy altogether and they use our federally funded health care system (for which they have not paid into)

then yes...it makes me madder than h^^^!!

some people/Americans would do what the illegals do but because they would want more money to do it (especially since they ARE PAYING TAXES ON THAT $$$$) they do not get the opportunity to do it anymore!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE CALLED "ILLEGAL" BECAUSE THEY get this....BROKE THE LAW!!!

I'll tell you what and I want your honest answer on this. If you are going to get mad at the illegals, then would it not make sense to vent your anger at India, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Central America and all those countries that U.S. countries use cheap labor to produce the goods you use here? I think your venting your frustrations the wrong way.

I am not mad at them...i would be mad at the AMERICAN COMPANY THAT OUTSOURCED TO THEM...not the foreigners themselves...they are working IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and pay taxes to their OWN COUNTRY on what they make.

They aren't "illegal" and they do not use a federally funded health care for which they haven't given a dime into!

[Janice]

If the employers would be prosecuted, as they should, for hiring illegals, paying them below minimum and also in most cases, no paper work, ss and federal taxes taken from wages, no benefits, and basically cash as not to report or get caught. They are creating all the problems and getting away with it, why? Everyone knows a big percentage are paid cash, no taxes taken out. So, how are they helping our economy. I am only speaking of the illegals. If these employers paid minimum wages, maybe then Americans would apply for some of these jobs. There are some who will work for minimum wages. Getting back to Walmart and others who get their names slammed all over the newspapers for hiring illegals, why are not these farmers and constuction companies getting their names and businesses slammed too?

[Gtmalacd]

I don't necessarily despise them...I am just sick of seeing many American jobs going to someone who will take less pay. if less pay is given and no taxes are paid then i guess they make just as much as someone who gets paid more but HAS TO pay taxes!

if they want to move here because there is "a better life" and they take our money tax-free and send it down to their relatives whereby it leaves our economy altogether and they use our federally funded health care system (for which they have not paid into)

then yes...it makes me madder than h^^^!!

some people/Americans would do what the illegals do but because they would want more money to do it (especially since they ARE PAYING TAXES ON THAT $$$$) they do not get the opportunity to do it anymore!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE CALLED "ILLEGAL" BECAUSE THEY get this....BROKE THE LAW!!!

I'll tell you what and I want your honest answer on this. If you are going to get mad at the illegals, then would it not make sense to vent your anger at India, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Central America and all those countries that U.S. countries use cheap labor to produce the goods you use here? I think your venting your frustrations the wrong way.

I am not mad at them...i would be mad at the AMERICAN COMPANY THAT OUTSOURCED TO THEM...not the foreigners themselves...they are working IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and pay taxes to their OWN COUNTRY on what they make.

You see what you are failing to understand is that taking jobs that no one wants is one thing, but giving good paying jobs (outsourcing) is another. Would you want to work the fields, have no benefits, get screwed come pay day because you have to pay rent on a dilapidated house that leaks and rats crawl all over. Just because they're here don't think they have it easy. Far from it.

[Janice]

That does not make it right that they sneak in our country illegally.