500,000 March for the Rights of Illegals in Los Angeles, etc

[greeng13]

You see what you are failing to understand is that taking jobs that no one wants is one thing, but giving good paying jobs (outsourcing) is another. Would you want to work the fields, have no benefits, get screwed come pay day because you have to pay rent on a dilapidated house that leaks and rats crawl all over. Just because they're here don't think they have it easy. Far from it.

i never said they had it "easy". and to mention the outsourcing is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC...please see my comments in the Walmart thread...

my argument above addresses the "no one wants these jobs" point. Many Americans had those jobs...friends of mine have LOST THEIR CONSTRUCTION JOBS TO ILLEGALS and to contractors that "might" be using illegals who can therfore put in a lower bid and still make $$$ for the same job.

after edit: the outsourcing does deal with jobs that are not necessarily "good paying" as you state they are. Someone at America Online who deals with customer service for instance doesn't get paid all that well....either here or in India. but for purposes of this discussion entiltled "500,000 march for the rights of ILLEGALS" i will leave that topic alone now but suffice it to say that that angers me as well. but it IS LEGAL!

[Gtmalacd]

If the employers would be prosecuted, as they should, for hiring illegals, paying them below minimum and also in most cases, no paper work, ss and federal taxes taken from wages, no benefits, and basically cash as not to report or get caught. They are creating all the problems and getting away with it, why? Everyone knows a big percentage are paid cash, no taxes taken out. So, how are they helping our economy. I am only speaking of the illegals. If these employers paid minimum wages, maybe then Americans would apply for some of these jobs. There are some who will work for minimum wages. Getting back to Walmart and others who get their names slammed all over the newspapers for hiring illegals, why are not these farmers and constuction companies getting their names and businesses slammed too?

Janice, if you were unemployed and someone offered you to work the fields 8-10 hours a day for minimum wage and no benefits would you work it?

[greeng13]

i would...but then again i have a work ethic that would dictate to me not to go on welfare!

sorry...as long as i am phsically able to i would.

[Janice]

Well, I might have no choice. I might have to do it till I find something else. I have to eat, don't I and I certainly wouldn't go on welfare or handouts. I would only do it for a short time until I found something else. I do believe there is work for those here in America that want to work. I think most people have started at the bottom.

[Janice]

No one in America owes me a thing. It is my responsibility to get out there and find a job.

[Gtmalacd]

What do Americans consider "starting at the bottom"? Every american I have spoken to would not consider working the fields. I agree something should be done, but what. Your laws don't affect me because I am here in Guate, but I was once there and no the realities of field working. I never worked the fields by the way.

[Janice]

I grew up in Iowa. We lived in a small farm town. Most of my male classmates worked on their parents farms. I did detasseling. It was a horrible summer job walking the fields but that is how I made money for school clothes in high school. Farmers and their families have been doing this for hundreds of years. Why all of a sudden is it something that most people would not do. Some farmers made no money with droughts, etc.

But you see, I am a citizen, so I don't have to take this job. I can get a minimum wage job at K-mart, McDonalds or somewhere else till I can get a higher paying job. Illegals cannot do that, they have to hide in the fields because they snuck in our country.

[Gtmalacd]

I grew up in Iowa. We lived in a small farm town. Most of my male classmates worked on their parents farms. I did detasseling. It was a horrible summer job walking the fields but that is how I made money for school clothes in high school. Farmers and their families have been doing this for hundreds of years. Why all of a sudden is it something that most people would not do. Some farmers made no money with droughts, etc.

But you see, I am a citizen, so I don't have to take this job. I can get a minimum wage job at K-mart, McDonalds or somewhere else till I can get a higher paying job. Illegals cannot do that, they have to hide in the fields because they snuck in our country.

What exactly do you mean by "OUR COUNTRY"?

[Janice]

Our country is the United States made up of US citizens.

[Gtmalacd]

Our country is the United States made up of US citizens.

Hmm, very interesting mini observation.

[Janice]

I am sure the term "our Country" has a different meaning for different people, this is just how I describe it for myself. I think it probably means the same for people living in any other country. They probably feel their country is comprised of their citizens.

[Aslkahuna]

Any solution to the problem requires a two pronged approach. First off, Border Security MUST be improved and enforced because there are just too many problems inherent with insecure borders. Secondly, there must be a Guest Worker program that among other things guarantees FLSA protections to the workers and with very stiff penalties and enforcement against the crooked businessmen who would attempt to continue their exploitation of foreign workers.

Two URLs-the first is http://www.svherald.com which is for the local newspaper. they usually have about 1-3 articles per day on this issue and gives a good idea of what it's like to live down here. One can also search for back articles. Pay close attention to the monthly Border Patrol reports when they come out.

The second is http://www.kvoa.com on the left side click on Investigators
and scroll down the articles until you come to the reports entitled Terrorist Alley and Return to Terrorist Alley which gives a perspective of Border Security issues in SE AZ as seen by the people living along it as well as LEOs. KVOA is the local NBC affiliate in Tucson and frequently carries reports about ongoing stories on this issue.

Steve

[Janice]

Looks like the Guest Program may go. It is a good plan, but my only fear is that after the time their permits are up, say 5 years, they are supposed to leave. I doubt any of them will ever leave. As far as the borders, I am afraid there will be millions coming over each year unless there is strict enforcement. You cannot handle those in this country already if they continue to come in by the millions. I really don't think this will be settled before the next presidential election. We don't need any new laws that won't be enforced. Also, I feel that there needs to be strict paperwork so that we know that all wages are being taxed. Too many are being paid cash in hand. We need to guarantee that employers are paying in ss and state and federal taxes on employees.

[Aslkahuna]

Based upon what came out of the Senate Committee today, the illegals will get amnesty and those living along the Border will get NO security despite the "promises' to hire more agents which will never be kept. Thus we have opened the doors to another 12 million to come illegally and squat until THEY get amnesty. My wife and son have been mortally insulted by the US Senate. I now formally give up on the US Government.

Steve

[conestogo_flood]

Does guest worker work for Canadians? I'd so do this!

[MGC]

I watched the news on the marches around the country. The one thing that puzzled me was the only flag I noticed the marchers waving was the Mexican flag. Looked to me that the protesters are trying to make the USA a new country or part of Mexico. I have no problem with legal immigration. Nearly all present day Americans are decendants of immigrants. America must gain control of her borders even to the extent of building a fence with a moat filled with gators as needed. I have nothing against the Mexican people. But please if you want to come to America than do so legally and learn English.......MGC

[gtalum]

If it were actually possible for poor Mexicans to immigrat ehere legally, I bet they would. However, right now it's virtually impossible for any poor person to immigrate to the United States legally, unless they are considered refugees from oppressive governments, which Mexicans are not. When our parents and grandparents immigrated here, anyone willing to work was allowed in. Now that's just not the case.

These people are desperate to improve their lives and will come here whether we make it legal or not. The logical choice it to make legal immigration very easy, like it used to be.

[Gtmalacd]

If it were actually possible for poor Mexicans to immigrat ehere legally, I bet they would. However, right now it's virtually impossible for any poor person to immigrate to the United States legally, unless they are considered refugees from oppressive governments, which Mexicans are not. When our parents and grandparents immigrated here, anyone willing to work was allowed in. Now that's just not the case.

These people are desperate to improve their lives and will come here whether we make it legal or not. The logical choice it to make legal immigration very easy, like it used to be.

Gtalum, some peope don't understand that. Many think that this is there country and only U.S. Citizens should be allowed. I find that thinking illogical and narrow minded. Its kinda a funny how we want to implement different policies for different races. The cubans can be allowed in legally as long as they step on U.S. soil, Haitians are allowed in no matter what, but the mexicans and points south forget about it they are raked through the coals and tarred and feathered. How about we apply the same animosity to all races that enter illegally.

[Janice]

Some say we have up to 20 million illegal Mexicans here. They are receiving health care, education, our prisons are 30 % Mexicans, and they are working. I do not see where we are discriminating against them. They are treated better than some of our legal citizens. The money our taxes spend on them for all these free benefits could go to prescriptions for our elderly. They could probably get free meds for what we are spending on illigals. These people have it made here even without citizenship. We just need to document them and make sure their employers are paying taxes on them so we can get some of this money back for all these benefits. Too many are being paid cash in hand and we will be broke if we get any more hurricanes or a terrorist attack.

Ane I personally see all these 20 million illegals, etc. being added to our present welfare system. They will all get free help in housing, health care and higher education.

We have a set LEGAL policy for the Cubans and Haitians and they follow the rules. The people south of our border sneak in illegally. They don't even apply for work permits before coming in. We need a set LEGAL policy for those people too.

[Gtmalacd]

Some say we have up to 20 million illegal Mexicans here. They are receiving health care, education, our prisons are 30 % Mexicans, and they are working. I do not see where we are discriminating against them. They are treated better than some of our legal citizens. The money our taxes spend on them for all these free benefits could go to prescriptions for our elderly. They could probably get free meds for what we are spending on illigals. These people have it made here even without citizenship. We just need to document them and make sure their employers are paying taxes on them so we can get some of this money back for all these benefits. Too many are being paid cash in hand and we will be broke if we get any more hurricanes or a terrorist attack.

Ane I personally see all these 20 million illegals, etc. being added to our present welfare system. They will all get free help in housing, health care and higher education.

We have a set LEGAL policy for the Cubans and Haitians and they follow the rules. The people south of our border sneak in illegally. They don't even apply for work permits before coming in. We need a set LEGAL policy for those people too.

Hmm, sneaking in on a boat with the luck of stepping foot on dry U.S. soil to become legal sounds ridiculous to me. Why not set policy for the mexicans that you seem so bothered by? You know the cubans and haitians get the same free same stuff that the mexicans, but that does not seem to bother you right?