Bring on Global warming!!!

[Dr. Jonah Rainwater]

Matt, I'm sorry I've been so curt and dismissive with my attitude towards your ideas here. The thing is, they're horribly wrong.

If you want a warmer climate, move to Florida. Millions of people will suffer the destruction of their homes, communities, livelihoods, perhaps lives due to global warming's chaotic effects. And it is happening - we're in the middle of a warming cycle, yes...we have been since the end of the Little Ice Age in the Middle Ages...it's happening faster than any climate change ever seen in thousands of years of ice core history.

Whether it's natural, artificial, or natural with a boost from carbon emissions...it's happening. But it's not reversible. Remember the ozone layer? It's beginning to come back now, 30 years after the enactment of strict laws regulating CFC emissions. I'm sure it's not too late to save the climate our cilivization has built itself around either.

But to say you welcome global warming is just irresponsible.

[x-y-no]

I also heard that Mars and a moon around Jupiter was warming. Would that mean anything?

Mars has an extremely variable climate, primarily due to large-scale and long lasting dust storms. I'm not aware of any evidence that there's any consistent trend of either warming or cooling there.

Nor have I seen anything about a warming trend on any moon of Jupiter. Perhaps you can point us towards some article about this?

[AussieMark]

Even only a couple of feet sea level rise would displace hundreds of millions of people.

Exactly

the Ganges Delta is low lying enough as it is. add a few more feet onto that and its not pretty

[KWT]

Its not so much the warming that is worth noting, but its the RATE that its occuring that hasn't happened since 65 million years ago I believe when most of India and surrounding countries were puring out vast amounts of lava onto the land and with it massive sulfer and carbon dioxide emissions. Infact some people reckon this is what finished the Dinosaurs.

Its fair to say that our Co2 emissions are making a difference and probably a very large one at that, though not on a par with the Dinosaur era just yet, we aren't far off and back then I believe temps rose by 10c in a very fast time and who is to say the exact same won't happen this time.

In defense to what some have said about cycles and the sun, the sun is according to some people at its strongest for a good 1000 years and while queiter now during its min, its next max is suposed to be one of the strongest in a very very long time. This rather neatly explains the rise in temps on other planets at the same time as well I feel.

So where does this leave us. With a warming planet thats for sure. But who is to blame. I think it'd be fair to ay both nature and AGW sources are to blame and its not one or the other.

After the little ice age we was bound to go into a warmer spell but its become noticeably warmer then even the warm-up after the little ice age was in the early 20th century.

Also may I say, yes we still will have cooler periods...but they will only be colder RELATIVE to the base temps.

With global warming one things for sure, the global temps will rise and we've already seen the progress northwards of the sub-tropical belt and also of the jet stream. We sshould nowe be entering the cooler phase of our weather where the jet stream on average dips further south then during the max as the cold air slowly re-builds in the artic over the next few winters, though to what degree this will occur is a major question mark.
Also while I'm at it, please DON'T use one-off events like sayng that this month was the coldest month in blah blah blah. Equally we've just had the most active hurricane ever. it's all ups and downs and hence why its called weather.

The only thing we know for sure is the earth is warming and anything else is pure speculation.

[x-y-no]

couldn't global warming bring on an ice age tho.
i.e if the melting glaciers of North pole shut down the thermohaline conveyor

that could effect the temperatures globally right?

A couple of things about that ...

Yes, there have been events in the past where a sudden influx of fresh water into the North Atlantic has shut down the THC. Compared to even the accellerated melt we seem to be seeing now, however, the influx of fresh water in those events was far faster. There's little if any consensus yet that the current freshening is sufficiently rapid to cause a similar event, but it's within the realm of possibility.

That said, I have a hard time seeing how the resultant cooling would be global, given that the levels of atmospheric GHGs would continue to be very high. There would likely be a regional cooling fo northern Europe, with corresponding warming in other regions.

[CHRISTY]

i think global warming is playing a part in the increase of strong hurricanes even if it is a small affect.conditions have to be almost perfect for a cat 5 to happen so i think its a conbination of maybe both.i fear we may see many more cat 5 hurricanes in the atlantic ocean in the years to come even if we have seasons with a low number of storms forming.i also feel the US will see more strikes in the very near future!

[JPmia]

I just don't get the debate on this issue. This debate boils down to one thing POLLUTION. Besides the idea of Global Warming, pollution has MANY other effects on human health, ecosystems, etc. If you want to live in a world that looks like this, you're on crack!

Check out these links: (If you think the US produces a lot of air pollution, wait until every Chinese person has their car)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

My reasoning on this issue is very simple: Are we so cheap that we can't even begin to take steps to reduce OUR activities that cause or could cause the problem; and many other ills? Pollution, whether it be from coal powered factories to the automobile, is killing us right now.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

The United states will do so once China and India agree to cut theres...By those pics it seem that they have alot more work then us.

[Audrey2Katrina]

I'm with Dr. Gray on this one. That the globe is "warming" is beyond a scintilla of doubt by any credible scientist using any credible data. What IS debatable is whether or not it is in any way/manner being affected or exacerbated by human inducements. On THAT issue, I also aree with him inasmuch as if humans are having any impact, it's minimal, and that nature's own rhythm/cycle is much more at work.

A2K

[Ola]

Before and after





Before and after







check it out http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org ... ciers.html

[Extremeweatherguy]

Keep in mind that those glacier pictures represent just 2 glaciers...there hae been other glaciers that have actually grown in recent years.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Keep in mind that those glacier pictures represent just 2 glaciers...there hae been other glaciers that have actually grown in recent years.

I agree...Also the Antartic and greenland glaciers have been growing. That is a amazing 90 percent or more of the worlds glaciers. I was reading about it in said wow!

[Audrey2Katrina]

There are MANY places where glacial ice is in retreat, and yes, there are a few where it is growing somewhat. I read somewhere (I'd have to dig to find it again--but it was a credible source) that the actual thickness of the glacial sheet over Greenland and in may parts of Antarctica has grown by several inches, even as many of the ice shelfs (such as the Ross) have shrunken dramatically. All I can say is that when reviewing such data, consider the source. Global Warming is a red-hot issue and very few websites look at it objectively any more. Most tend to be either in the panic-stricken sensationalistic "we're all gonna drown" mode, or the--in denial "there ain't no such thing as any global warming" mode. One must learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff!

A2K

[MGC]

The Portage Galcier in Alaska has been retreating since the early 1800's. Humanity was not producing anywhere near the amount of CO2 back then. Sorry, but I remain convinced that the warming trend the Earth is currently experiencing is a natural cycle......MGC

[Sanibel]

I think people are engaging in denial by trying to suggest that the huge amounts of CO2 deposited in the atmosphere in the last decades have no effect whatsoever on the phenomenon. Scientists said the uprise in CO2 is 3 times as great as any previous natural increase. This is accompanied by a planet now stripped and deforested like never in its previous history.

Just last week scientists warned it is happening faster than expected.


Some glaciers and polar ice sheets will grow during this phenomenon because the warming causes the previous weather pattern to shift making it colder over that area. There is no doubt, however, that the general, large scale trend is towards serious warming. Scientists now fear the polar bear could go extinct from lack of sea ice on which to hunt.


"Iceberg ahead" "Iceberg ahead"!

"Ah, let's see, icebergs are natural and have happened in the past. Bring it on!..."

[Epsilon_Fan]

I don't think the debate is whether there IS global warming... because it is happening... but the question is whether it is natural or man-made.

I studied global warming in college and there is a definite substantial rise in Earth's average temperature that coincides with the rise of industry i nthe past 200 years. There are people that think "The Day after Tomorrow" will happen and then some people who say it will take thousands of years. I think an Ice Age will come, but not in our lifetime. The whole ocean circulation thing is true however, although not as bad as Hollywood seems to think

[curtadams]

Keep in mind that those glacier pictures represent just 2 glaciers...there hae been other glaciers that have actually grown in recent years.

I agree...Also the Antartic and greenland glaciers have been growing. That is a amazing 90 percent or more of the worlds glaciers. I was reading about it in said wow!

You're reading seriously bogus stuff. Greenland is melting, and the melt has sped up dramatically just in the past few years. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 021006.php There are dozens of articles in reputable journals on Greenland ice and they all show it's melting, and the rate is increasing. The only claim I've seen that they're growing is this unbelievably boneheaded travelogue by some guy who went up to Greenland. The locals were taking him around and showing him all these place where glaciers were rapidly retreating. *He* concluded, since they hadn't completely melted yet, they must be growing! Ayiyi!

[curtadams]

I'd rather a warmer Earth than a colder one. Us humans evolved in a warm climate thats why we are mostly hairless. Just a little over 1000 years ago the Vikings discovered Greenland, which is now covered mostly in ICE. The Vikings also grew grapes in Labrador, funny but I have not tasted any wine from that region in some time. I wonder what happened? The Earth got cooler. A mini ice age would lead to the deaths of millions due to crop failures because of a reduced growing season in the norther hemisphere. The warming trend started hundreds of years ago. Glaciers have been retreating since the early 1800's as John Mier noted of Alaskan glaciers. I'll take the warmth thank you.....MGC

I wish people would read up on the Greenland Vikings before making claims. Greenland was *not* green when the Vikings settled it. It was *colder* and probably had more ice than today (although probably warmer than 50 years ago). The Vikings squeezed into two small areas which for miniclimactic reason had no ice sheets (and still don't) and long enough summers to grow hay (barely). They were iced in the majority of the year and in bad years couldn't travel by boat at all because of ice (it never gets that bad now). They never grew grapes anywhere - they found wild grapes going south but we don't know how far south. The settlement we found was a base camp, and they definitely went further south than that. The warming trend did indeed start about 300 years ago - when Europe started burning coal on a large scale.

[curtadams]

Greenhouse gases drive the climate. There's a spectacular demonstration from 500,000 years of Vostok ice core http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org ... limate.htm The scary thing is that the current level of CO2 is literally off the chart - WAY off - enough that we're due several degree C of temperature increase beyond the 1-2 we've already had. It's *not* a cycle - CO2 (and CH4) haven't been this high for about 20 million years.

[Audrey2Katrina]

Greenhouse gases drive the climate. There's a spectacular demonstration from 500,000 years of Vostok ice core http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org ... limate.htm The scary thing is that the current level of CO2 is literally off the chart - WAY off - enough that we're due several degree C of temperature increase beyond the 1-2 we've already had. It's *not* a cycle - CO2 (and CH4) haven't been this high for about 20 million years.

I seriously doubt that. Once again, I reiterate that many of the folks in this debate cite all these websites that have their own agenda. If there is one bromide that is very true, it's that you can use statistics and/or the Bible to prove just about any viewpoint you wish. The same can be said for using website data. There are even places for those who want to believe in the flat earth and just about every other ridiculous theory/idea/conspiracy for that matter. For the people who want to cry "the sky is falling!" they frequent the websites that cater to this belief, and frankly they are no more credible than those which claim that there is absolutely no global warming. There are very credible scientists who think that the concept of so-called "human-induced" global warming is either mythical, or extremely minimal. It all depends on who you want to get your information from, and yes, the panic-mongers have the center-stage for the time being so their side gets a lot more exposure.

Frankly, I fail to see where global warming is an issue for "Talking Tropics" at all, and would be better suited for another forum. This is taking on a very political bend, and even if the globe is, or isn't warming all that much, you can be certain of one thing: if left unchecked, this debate is quite likely to. And with that expression of my opinion on a matter that, which despite the fear-mongering and denial groups, is most decidedly *not* beyond dispute either way... I will end my discussion on this rather "heated" subject.

Hoping "cooler" temperaments prevail:

A2K