Invest 95L,E of Bahamas,Comments,Sat Pics,Models Thread #1

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#61 Postby skysummit » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:20 pm

Tampa_God wrote:
caneman wrote:
skysummit wrote:Looks like it'll get ripped apart like it's cousin!


PLease explain. It's not gonna be rapid intensification but I don't see it getting ripped apart either

I think what he means is that this was actually 94L before it got ripped out by shear and now that we have 95L it will do the same.

Any chance of the shear from the west lighten up a bit?


Well, yea...it looked really impressive earlier today, so did 94L at one point, but like 94L, upper air conditions are just not favorable at all for development and it's currently being sheared apart like 94L. I do, however, believe 95 has a better chance than 94 did....especially toward Sunday and Monday.
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Re: No.

#62 Postby Noles2006 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:20 pm

caneman wrote:
Noles2006 wrote:
Cyclenall wrote:
JamesFromMaine2 wrote:I am not bashing any one or anything by saying this but it seems like after last year all the pro-mets on here seem to be tired out and not wanting anything to develop. Every single system so far this year they have all been saying will not develop even if the NHC is saying they will or have a chance to develop.

I noticed that as well.


LOL. The pro mets on this board have been damn near 100% correct this year in predicting development. The only invest they jumped on became Alberto. I'd start listening to them instead of freaking out over every little blow up of convection.


ahmm, No Alberto was not suppose to develop. And the invest was not suppose to get anywhere near classification and it did. Nothing against the mets but sometimes they are the exact opposite of our everything will develop posters. I know it is there job not to alarm people until something is actaully formed but doggone sure would like to hear their opinion on what the future holds for an invest than just stating something that is currently obvious.


I disagree with you about Alberto; many pro mets on board expected some sort of development in the Western Carribean during the time frame that what became Alberto developed.

[Their job is most definitely NOT "not to alarm people until something is actually formed". They base their judgments on what all of their tools (satellites, surface observations, model forecasts) and skill tell them, NOT whether or not the public will freak out over what they see. The idea that they're only telling us that something isn't going to develop because if they did tell us that it will develop we would panic is ludicrous. That's not what they're trained to do. If they see something that catches their eye, they'll tell us. They haven't this year (other than Alberto) because nothing has been a serious threat to develop into a tropical cyclone. After all, it is June. Sit back, enjoy the quiet periods and quit telling the pro mets that they're not doing their job right.
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#63 Postby skysummit » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:23 pm

ABC's Bruce Katz in NOLA said something a little different than FOX 8. While FOX 8's Chris Jackson said 95L will move north, Bruce said it'll probably track to the WNW, but since it's at the latitude it's at, it shouldn't be a problem for the gulf.
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Re: No.

#64 Postby wxman57 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:23 pm

caneman wrote:
Noles2006 wrote:
Cyclenall wrote:
JamesFromMaine2 wrote:I am not bashing any one or anything by saying this but it seems like after last year all the pro-mets on here seem to be tired out and not wanting anything to develop. Every single system so far this year they have all been saying will not develop even if the NHC is saying they will or have a chance to develop.

I noticed that as well.


LOL. The pro mets on this board have been damn near 100% correct this year in predicting development. The only invest they jumped on became Alberto. I'd start listening to them instead of freaking out over every little blow up of convection.


ahmm, No Alberto was not suppose to develop. And the invest was not suppose to get anywhere near classification and it did. Nothing against the mets but sometimes they are the exact opposite of our everything will develop posters. I know it is there job not to alarm people until something is actaully formed but doggone sure would like to hear their opinion on what the future holds for an invest than just stating something that is currently obvious.


I would point out that saying something "has a chance to develop" and saying "it probably will not develop" may mean exactily the same thing. If something has a 5% chance of developing, then there is a chance it could develop, but it probably will not develop (95% chance). The NHC will always say a system has a chance to develop, even when that chance may be tiny. I will always stress the much more likely scenario, but acknowledge when there might be a small chance of development.

As for Alberto, I was quite conderned about it developing. We called a special meeting at the office 2 days before it was classified to schedule staffing. My first official statement on Alberto was as follows:

"Issued: 4:30PM CDT Friday, June 9, 2006

Pressures are falling and thunderstorms are increasing in the northwest Caribbean Sea this afternoon, and it looks like the disturbance is developing a low-level circulation center just to the west of the Cayman Islands near 19.5N/83W. I think that a tropical depression could form within the next 12-24 hours. Movement is difficult to assess, but I think that the system will drift slowly northward into western Cuba over the next 24-36 hours. Beyond that time, computer models are beginning to come into very good agreement in a northeasterly turn toward the Florida Peninsula. But where this system eventually tracks will depend a great deal upon where the center becomes established. The farther east the center forms, the farther down the Florida Peninsula the eventual track would be. It's even possible that the system could pass south of the Florida Peninsula and across the Bahamas.

As for intensity, wind shear will remain at least moderate for the next 3-4 days across the northwest Caribbean Sea and southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This should prevent the disturbance from reaching hurricane strength. Maximum winds could reach 45-65 mph before the system moves east of Florida."


The main difference between many of the pro mets here and a number of posters is we can go on living if a system doesn't develop. We don't think it's fun to see how many hurricanes we can get in a season. Hurricanes mean threats to us and to our clients, and many of those people cannot take a hit in their current state of readiness. So we consider the chances that each disturbance will develop very carefully. When a system really has a chance of development it'll become obvious.

It's been mentioned on this thread that many invests are declared each season. That's true. And only a small fraction of them ever amount to anything. That is particularly true early in the season (June/July). So I'll reserve my enthusiasm for development for a system that really has a shot at developing.
Last edited by wxman57 on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#65 Postby Recurve » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:24 pm

Have to ask a dumb question: Where are we now?
95L is convection firing east of the Bahamas?
93L is the one being tracked for a while, farther south around Puerto Rico, passing the Lesser Antilles?
94L is the Bay of Campeche (BOC) blob that's too far west to worry (south) florida?

I could use one thread, stickied, that indexes the thread names when there's multiple ones out there. The Tropical discussion doesn't use invest numbers. I guess they're from NRL (Navy) and in only some TPC products.

We're not just making up invests (investigation areas), are we?

Kidding!
I'm fine with a dozen invests -- and no first names.
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Re: No.

#66 Postby CHRISTY » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:28 pm

wxman57 wrote:
caneman wrote:
Noles2006 wrote:
Cyclenall wrote:
JamesFromMaine2 wrote:I am not bashing any one or anything by saying this but it seems like after last year all the pro-mets on here seem to be tired out and not wanting anything to develop. Every single system so far this year they have all been saying will not develop even if the NHC is saying they will or have a chance to develop.

I noticed that as well.


LOL. The pro mets on this board have been damn near 100% correct this year in predicting development. The only invest they jumped on became Alberto. I'd start listening to them instead of freaking out over every little blow up of convection.


ahmm, No Alberto was not suppose to develop. And the invest was not suppose to get anywhere near classification and it did. Nothing against the mets but sometimes they are the exact opposite of our everything will develop posters. I know it is there job not to alarm people until something is actaully formed but doggone sure would like to hear their opinion on what the future holds for an invest than just stating something that is currently obvious.


I would point out that saying something "has a chance to develop" and saying "it probably will not develop" may mean exactily the same thing. If something has a 5% chance of developing, then there is a chance it could develop, but it probably will not develop (95% chance). The NHC will always say a system has a chance to develop, even when that chance may be tiny. I will always stress the much more likely scenario, but acknowledge when there might be a small chance of development.

As for Alberto, I was quite conderned about it developing. We called a special meeting at the office 2 days before it was classified to schedule staffing. My first official statement on Alberto was as follows:

"Issued: 4:30PM CDT Friday, June 9, 2006

Pressures are falling and thunderstorms are increasing in the northwest Caribbean Sea this afternoon, and it looks like the disturbance is developing a low-level circulation center just to the west of the Cayman Islands near 19.5N/83W. I think that a tropical depression could form within the next 12-24 hours. Movement is difficult to assess, but I think that the system will drift slowly northward into western Cuba over the next 24-36 hours. Beyond that time, computer models are beginning to come into very good agreement in a northeasterly turn toward the Florida Peninsula. But where this system eventually tracks will depend a great deal upon where the center becomes established. The farther east the center forms, the farther down the Florida Peninsula the eventual track would be. It's even possible that the system could pass south of the Florida Peninsula and across the Bahamas.

As for intensity, wind shear will remain at least moderate for the next 3-4 days across the northwest Caribbean Sea and southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This should prevent the disturbance from reaching hurricane strength. Maximum winds could reach 45-65 mph before the system moves east of Florida."


The main difference between many of the pro mets here and a number of posters is we can go on living if a system doesn't develop. We don't think it's fun to see how many hurricanes we can get in a season. Hurricanes mean threats to us and to our clients, and many of those people cannot take a hit in their current state of readiness. So we consider the chances that each disturbance will develop very carefully. When a system really has a chance of development it'll become obvious.

It's been mentioned on this thread that many invests are declared each season. That's true. And only a small fraction of them ever amount to anything. That is particularly true early in the season (June/July). So I'll reserve my enthusiasm for development for a system that really has a shot at developing.


wxman57 are u sure that trough makes all the way down into the southeast?
Last edited by CHRISTY on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#67 Postby johngaltfla » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:28 pm

clfenwi wrote:
cycloneye wrote:Anyone has an archieve on how 2005 was in terms of the number of invests vs 2006 around the end of June?


A few nights ago I was looking at that... The first Invest 95 last year was what became Bret...96 was classified on July 2 and became Cindy... and 97 was classified on July 4 and became Dennis.


Thank you for that update, I think. However if we start down this road, this early, I fear that August and September will be the precursor to another record. I only guessed in the 20's as far as named storms this year. 23 might be conservative based on the activity thus far. Especially if the high builds in and these suckers start moving East on a regular basis....
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Re: No.

#68 Postby Noles2006 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:29 pm

wxman57 wrote:
caneman wrote:
Noles2006 wrote:
Cyclenall wrote:
JamesFromMaine2 wrote:I am not bashing any one or anything by saying this but it seems like after last year all the pro-mets on here seem to be tired out and not wanting anything to develop. Every single system so far this year they have all been saying will not develop even if the NHC is saying they will or have a chance to develop.

I noticed that as well.


LOL. The pro mets on this board have been damn near 100% correct this year in predicting development. The only invest they jumped on became Alberto. I'd start listening to them instead of freaking out over every little blow up of convection.


ahmm, No Alberto was not suppose to develop. And the invest was not suppose to get anywhere near classification and it did. Nothing against the mets but sometimes they are the exact opposite of our everything will develop posters. I know it is there job not to alarm people until something is actaully formed but doggone sure would like to hear their opinion on what the future holds for an invest than just stating something that is currently obvious.


I would point out that saying something "has a chance to develop" and saying "it probably will not develop" may mean exactily the same thing. If something has a 5% chance of developing, then there is a chance it could develop, but it probably will not develop (95% chance). The NHC will always say a system has a chance to develop, even when that chance may be tiny. I will always stress the much more likely scenario, but acknowledge when there might be a small chance of development.

As for Alberto, I was quite conderned about it developing. We called a special meeting at the office 2 days before it was classified to schedule staffing. My first official statement on Alberto was as follows:

"Issued: 4:30PM CDT Friday, June 9, 2006

Pressures are falling and thunderstorms are increasing in the northwest Caribbean Sea this afternoon, and it looks like the disturbance is developing a low-level circulation center just to the west of the Cayman Islands near 19.5N/83W. I think that a tropical depression could form within the next 12-24 hours. Movement is difficult to assess, but I think that the system will drift slowly northward into western Cuba over the next 24-36 hours. Beyond that time, computer models are beginning to come into very good agreement in a northeasterly turn toward the Florida Peninsula. But where this system eventually tracks will depend a great deal upon where the center becomes established. The farther east the center forms, the farther down the Florida Peninsula the eventual track would be. It's even possible that the system could pass south of the Florida Peninsula and across the Bahamas.

As for intensity, wind shear will remain at least moderate for the next 3-4 days across the northwest Caribbean Sea and southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This should prevent the disturbance from reaching hurricane strength. Maximum winds could reach 45-65 mph before the system moves east of Florida."

The main difference between many of the pro mets here and a number of posters is we can go on living if a system doesn't develop. We don't think it's fun to see how many hurricanes we can get in a season. Hurricanes mean threats to us and to our clients, and many of those people cannot take a hit in their current state of readiness. So we consider the chances that each disturbance will develop very carefully. When a system really has a chance of development it'll become obvious.

It's been mentioned on this thread that many invests are declared each season. That's true. And only a small fraction of them ever amount to anything. That is particularly true early in the season (June/July). So I'll reserve my enthusiasm for development for a system that really has a shot at developing.


BOO YAH.

The Pro Mets have been on the money so far this hurricane season.

I listen to them, only. IMO, the time to get concerned about a system is when they get concerned. They didn't go through all of their training for nothing.

I was a MET major for two years and lemme tell ya, it ain't easy. I eventually changed to my current major (accounting) because of post-graduation reasons... I have the utmost respect for them (meteorologists).
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#69 Postby Tampa_God » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:29 pm

Sorry to go off topic, but what is everyones aspect about the storms in the Gulf and the wave that just came off Africa?
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Re: No.

#70 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:31 pm

Noles2006 wrote: After all, it is June. Sit back, enjoy the quiet periods and quit telling the pro mets that they're not doing their job right.


...AND that is exactly right. It's June. Alberto is really the only thing that caught my eye and even that battled against the odds...and even the NHC thought it wasn't gonna make it...but drift west as a LLC and die (at one point).

We try to call it as we see it. What I think irritates people is we don't forecast every invest to turn into a hurricane (and after a season like '05...they think every one will...and it doesn't)...and that makes us seem like the "exact opposite" posters. We are not....we just say what we see. If I see development...I'll say it. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Funny thing is...people never remember when you were right when you said it would not develop...all those times...they only remember the couple of times you said it wouldn't and it did. :D

But that's the cross we bear. :lol:
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#71 Postby SouthFloridawx » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:33 pm

Did someone say Beer... or Bear?
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#72 Postby Tampa_God » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:34 pm

johngaltfla wrote:
clfenwi wrote:
cycloneye wrote:Anyone has an archieve on how 2005 was in terms of the number of invests vs 2006 around the end of June?


A few nights ago I was looking at that... The first Invest 95 last year was what became Bret...96 was classified on July 2 and became Cindy... and 97 was classified on July 4 and became Dennis.


Thank you for that update, I think. However if we start down this road, this early, I fear that August and September will be the precursor to another record. I only guessed in the 20's as far as named storms this year. 23 might be conservative based on the activity thus far. Especially if the high builds in and these suckers start moving East on a regular basis....

I predicted about 21-24 name storms, so close. I knew that the season would start pretty early,

June-1 storm
July-3
August-6
Septemember-5
October-5
November-3
December-1
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Re: No.

#73 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:37 pm

wxman57 wrote:

As for Alberto, I was quite conderned about it developing. We called a special meeting at the office 2 days before it was classified to schedule staffing.


I called ARNORTH intel and ARNORTH EOC on Friday morning at 0830 to let them know that come Monday...when they came into work...they would probably have the first named storm of the season on their hands...so don't be surprised...and that it would be headed to the NE GOM...along the west coast of Florida.

That's the only call like that I've made all year. So...no false alarms or dropped balls here either.
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#74 Postby storms NC » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:38 pm

Well there is one thing is that it will not go into a hurricane. TD at the most TS. The reason is that the waters here are not that warm yet. It will be a rain maker something the east coast don't need. :roll:
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#75 Postby SouthFloridawx » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:41 pm

Image

This system is being currently affect by 10-20kts of shear. There may be some decreasing shear ahead of this complex of thunderstorms.
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#76 Postby JamesFromMaine2 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:44 pm

Giving to me by an anonymous source..

sorry but if that person would look a little more closely he see that the front / trough has disapated... you can see the low level flow on that images in and around the SE us and the steering currents are very week and actually here in FLORIDA WE HAVE A ENE WIND>>>>> that means there is a HIGH pressure to our north and the NHC in the disscusion also says that ae well ... http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/eaus/loop-rgb.html

and another thing.. the trough that has been sitting over the east coast is lifting out and a large high is forcast to build in behind it you can see that on water vapor that there is no trough digging south ...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/eaus/loop-wv.html

i do agree with him that the pressures are high in the area .. but that means nothing excpet the pressures are high and it will take just a little more time for them to fall if we get LLC[/quote]
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Re: No.

#77 Postby caneman » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:45 pm

wxman57 wrote:
caneman wrote:
Noles2006 wrote:
Cyclenall wrote:
JamesFromMaine2 wrote:I am not bashing any one or anything by saying this but it seems like after last year all the pro-mets on here seem to be tired out and not wanting anything to develop. Every single system so far this year they have all been saying will not develop even if the NHC is saying they will or have a chance to develop.

I noticed that as well.


LOL. The pro mets on this board have been damn near 100% correct this year in predicting development. The only invest they jumped on became Alberto. I'd start listening to them instead of freaking out over every little blow up of convection.


ahmm, No Alberto was not suppose to develop. And the invest was not suppose to get anywhere near classification and it did. Nothing against the mets but sometimes they are the exact opposite of our everything will develop posters. I know it is there job not to alarm people until something is actaully formed but doggone sure would like to hear their opinion on what the future holds for an invest than just stating something that is currently obvious.


I would point out that saying something "has a chance to develop" and saying "it probably will not develop" may mean exactily the same thing. If something has a 5% chance of developing, then there is a chance it could develop, but it probably will not develop (95% chance). The NHC will always say a system has a chance to develop, even when that chance may be tiny. I will always stress the much more likely scenario, but acknowledge when there might be a small chance of development.

As for Alberto, I was quite conderned about it developing. We called a special meeting at the office 2 days before it was classified to schedule staffing. My first official statement on Alberto was as follows:

"Issued: 4:30PM CDT Friday, June 9, 2006

Pressures are falling and thunderstorms are increasing in the northwest Caribbean Sea this afternoon, and it looks like the disturbance is developing a low-level circulation center just to the west of the Cayman Islands near 19.5N/83W. I think that a tropical depression could form within the next 12-24 hours. Movement is difficult to assess, but I think that the system will drift slowly northward into western Cuba over the next 24-36 hours. Beyond that time, computer models are beginning to come into very good agreement in a northeasterly turn toward the Florida Peninsula. But where this system eventually tracks will depend a great deal upon where the center becomes established. The farther east the center forms, the farther down the Florida Peninsula the eventual track would be. It's even possible that the system could pass south of the Florida Peninsula and across the Bahamas.

As for intensity, wind shear will remain at least moderate for the next 3-4 days across the northwest Caribbean Sea and southeastern Gulf of Mexico. This should prevent the disturbance from reaching hurricane strength. Maximum winds could reach 45-65 mph before the system moves east of Florida."


The main difference between many of the pro mets here and a number of posters is we can go on living if a system doesn't develop. We don't think it's fun to see how many hurricanes we can get in a season. Hurricanes mean threats to us and to our clients, and many of those people cannot take a hit in their current state of readiness. So we consider the chances that each disturbance will develop very carefully. When a system really has a chance of development it'll become obvious.

It's been mentioned on this thread that many invests are declared each season. That's true. And only a small fraction of them ever amount to anything. That is particularly true early in the season (June/July). So I'll reserve my enthusiasm for development for a system that really has a shot at developing.


Well stated and I meant no harm. I do understand that 95% don't develop. I just like to get into what the synoptics could do in a couple days out. I know it must be frustrating to watch every undeveloped wave but for us tropics Lovers it's neat to try and figure out what synopotics are or will be in play and how it relates to development or not. That is where you guys come in. Thanks for all you guys do and the time you guys take to educate us.
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#78 Postby SouthFloridawx » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:46 pm

ATLANTIC OCEAN...
A SURFACE TROUGH IS OVER THE W ATLANTIC N OF HISPANIOLA ALONG
26N68W 21N72W. WIDELY SCATTERED MODERATE CONVECTION IS E OF THE
TROUGH FROM 21N-25N BETWEEN 64W-67W.
A 1030 MB HIGH IS OVER THE
CENTRAL ATLANTIC NEAR 37N50W. IN THE UPPER LEVELS... A TROUGH
IS OVER THE W ATLANTIC BETWEEN 70W-80W.
AN ANTICYCLONIC
CIRCULATION IS CENTERED NEAR 24N65W. ANTICYCLONIC FLOW IS N OF
20N BETWEEN 60W-70W.
A CYCLONIC CIRCULATION IS CENTERED OVER
THE CENTRAL ATLANTIC NEAR 23N50W.
CYCLONIC FLOW IS FROM 15N-30N
BETWEEN 30W-60W. WLY FLOW IS N OF 15N AND E OF 30W.

$$
FORMOSA
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#79 Postby arcticfire » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:50 pm

Why does there always seem to be some war when it comes to chance to devlope , who says it will and who says it won't , anyone who says yes is an "alarmist" anyone who says no is "wishing it won't".

Pro mets have a job to do and people to answer to about what they say will and won't happen. They walk a very fine line and choose their words very carefully for that reason. I have yet to see any pro mets downplay any system that eventually went on to something. Yet here we are again and the pro mets seem to be on the defensive trying to prove they do their job.

What I do see is a lot of people who think anyone who thinks something might develop are evil and jump all over them. Just because the pro's do not think something will develop is no reason to bash anyone who gets excited about a blob or chats about thinking they see a circulation. If you don't think it's going anywhere fine , but stop calling people alarmists.

*hopes off his soap box*

It's the tropical season people , relax , watch and discuss thats what this forum is for. Stop taking sides like each invest is a battle.
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#80 Postby Opal storm » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:53 pm

arcticfire wrote:Why does there always seem to be some war when it comes to chance to devlope , who says it will and who says it won't , anyone who says yes is an "alarmist" anyone who says no is "wishing it won't".

Pro mets have a job to do and people to answer to about what they say will and won't happen. They walk a very fine line and choose their words very carefully for that reason. I have yet to see any pro mets downplay any system that eventually went on to something. Yet here we are again and the pro mets seem to be on the defensive trying to prove they do their job.

What I do see is a lot of people who think anyone who thinks something might develop are evil and jump all over them. Just because the pro's do not think something will develop is no reason to bash anyone who gets excited about a blob or chats about thinking they see a circulation. If you don't think it's going anywhere fine , but stop calling people alarmists.

*hopes off his soap box*

It's the tropical season people , relax , watch and discuss thats what this forum is for. Stop taking sides like each invest is a battle.
I agree.Very well said.
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