Mel Gibson Gets DUI, Blasts Jews

[Lindaloo]

Jan, the officer stated to the media that he is Jewish. Guess the officer thought it was worth saying. I am not saying what he said was right. He lashed out at the officer because he was Jewish AND drunk.

You are just looking for an argument.

[abajan]

Jan, the officer stated to the media that he is Jewish. Guess the officer thought it was worth saying. I am not saying what he said was right. He lashed out at the officer because he was Jewish AND drunk.

You are just looking for an argument.

Just a minute...
The officer was drunk too? This sheds a whole new light on the story!

[Miss Mary]

Oh geez....even I got what Linda was saying. And I tend to misinterpret others sometimes.....yeah, the cop was drunk. Yeah, right.

I'm very disappointed with Gibson right now but let's try to stick to the facts (as we know them).

[abajan]

Oh geez....even I got what Linda was saying. And I tend to misinterpret others sometimes.....yeah, the cop was drunk. Yeah, right.

I'm very disappointed with Gibson right now but let's try to stick to the facts (as we know them).

Oh, I understand what she was saying now. It's not the cop but Mel that was Jewish and drunk.

Sorry about the earlier misunderstanding.

[Skywatch_NC]

Mel is Catholic not Jewish, abajan.

[HurricaneBill]

At least Mel got rid of that freakin' beard he had. Sheesh, he looked like Saddam when he was captured.

[all_we_know_is_FALLING]

But why would he say those things unprovoked?

[Cookiely]

...It saddens me that Mr. Gibson has this terrible disease, but it gladdens me that he was able to admit the truth, apologize, and get treatment for his relapse.

There is a school of thought that alcoholism isn't a disease at all but a bad habit.

Believe it or not, in some parts of the world, alcoholics are taught how to drink less alcohol rather than go completely cold turkey. The success rate is said to be quite high.

On the other hand, AA (which treats the problem as a disease) has a high failure rate.

The above info was taken from a documentary I saw on ABC a few years ago which stated that the jury is still out on the matter and alcoholism may in fact be a combination of disease and habit. Sorry but I can't provide any links to back up my claims, at the moment.

Someone I loved dearly died at the age of 42 from alcoholism. Do you know why he died? Because he read a book about learning how to control your drinking habits. He died trying. If a person has a psychological problem and is using alcohol or drugs as a method of coping, then with treatment, they might be able to drink again in the future. There is a difference between someone who is a heavy drinker and one who has alcoholism as a disease. The answer as far as I'm concerned is the medical condition of the patient during the detoxification process. I must STRONGLY disagree on the failure rate of AA. My cousin recently underwent treatment for a drug addiction. I recommended she get help at narcotics anonymous. She talked her mother into spending $15,000.00 to be put in a coma so she wouldn't suffer withdrawl symptoms. She thought it was a magic bullet. Ten days later she was back on the drugs. Sorry for the ranting and raving, but I firmly believe in the AA, NA or Gamblers anonymous programs of recovery.

[abajan]

Mel is Catholic not Jewish, abajan.

I know that.
Neither my last post nor the one before it were meant to be taken seriously.

[Skywatch_NC]

Mel is Catholic not Jewish, abajan.

I know that.
Neither my last post nor the one before it were meant to be taken seriously.

It's a serious situation for heavens sake...nothing about it.

[Lindaloo]

Jan, the officer stated to the media that he is Jewish. Guess the officer thought it was worth saying. I am not saying what he said was right. He lashed out at the officer because he was Jewish AND drunk.

You are just looking for an argument.

Just a minute...
The officer was drunk too? This sheds a whole new light on the story!

Um no, I meant that Mel was drunk and lashed out at the officer because the officer is Jewish.

[sunny]

Amazing how the media has jumped all over this, yet there are other "sources" who can make blatant racial remarks and not an eyebrow raised. Were Mel's remarks regrettable? You bet. But I didn't hear the man say he wanted to blow Israel off the map. Now if he were sitting in a cave somewhere funding terrorist and being called Sheik Mel, then I'd say Houston, we have a problem.

[x-y-no]

Jan, the officer stated to the media that he is Jewish. Guess the officer thought it was worth saying. I am not saying what he said was right. He lashed out at the officer because he was Jewish AND drunk.

Yes, the officer stated that to the media - after the story broke.

I seriously doubt he stated it to Gibson before the outburst about Jews being responsible for all the world's wars.

You are just looking for an argument.

I don't feel that way. I was just giving my opinion based on experience - outbursts like this don't just come from nowhere. They reflect some deeply held belief which surfaces due to the loss of inhibition associated with being drunk.

I really don't understand the alternate hypothesis. We're supposed to believe that he harbors no such ideas about Jews, but somehow the alcohol planted an entirely alien idea in his mind, one which bears no relation to what he actually believes? How does that work?

I was drunk an incredible amount of times in the old days, and I can honestly say no such thing ever happened to me. I did occasionally say things I really wished I hadn't said - but they were never things which came out of nowhere. Rather they were things I really thought, but would have had the good sense not to say if I hadn't been drunk.

[Audrey2Katrina]

There is a school of thought that alcoholism isn't a disease at all but a bad habit

Hmmm... like cigarette smoking?? I could understand calling it an "addiction", but dismissing anything more than a "habit" I find very simplistic.

Alcoholism is a disease in the truest sense of the word.

I agree.

But why would he say those things unprovoked?

Drunks don't always need much provocation. Some folks are happy drunks; (while it's rare I'm a happy drunk) others, including several friends I've known, are very much disposed to become violent. Additionally, all this talk about one would ONLY say what they TRULY feel when drunk is being somewhat disingenuous IMO. Yes, it is true, that alcohol will loosen the tongue substantially. I think that for many it's sort of a progression, giddiness, chumminess, complete openness, then from there it's either to sleepiness and unconsciousness, or for some to becoming maudlin, then passing out, and for others, becoming almost schizoid, definitely paranoid, and an inclination to violence. Just like everything else, you can't pigeon-hole everyone in the same slot. I KNOW from personal experience that people will shout some of the most horrible expletives while drunk, which in NO WAY reflects their honest feelings. I've seen friends go at each others' throats while drunk, cussin' and swearing about what a horrible person the other was--because they were "out of their mind" drunk and WANTED to say hurtful things--and months later one was standing as the best man at the other's wedding. No doubt in my mind these were good, very close friends; and yet to hear what was being shouted in drunken stupor one would have never imagined it--so please, the line that people always speak the truth when they're drunk is oversimplistic at best, and potentially as gross a generalization as I've found some are so quick to throw around their umbrage at detecting if anything someone else pens as being bigoted, or racist--a little consistency please! And this is aimed at no one in particular so please, no need for righteous indignation unless you find the foot-apparel fits well.

I also must admit, that I'm amazed at all this angst directed at a man who said some truly STUPID and hateful things--while literally hammered, and the coverage it is receiving--incredible play in the media; while someone who truly commits a HATE crime while cold sober going into a Jewish center in Seattle, shooting randomly, and killing one, injuring half a dozen others--not only gets very little play; but you already have the apologists in the MSM making one excuse after the other for this hideous act.

I've also heard, but do not have the source readily available, that according to some Jewish groups, Gibson's last appeal (for help and counselling from them) and apology seemed sincere and that they accept it as such. One might think this should indicate that it just might be time for all the others huffing and puffing over what a drunk said to get off those high-horses. JMHO.

It never ceases to amaze me how some have this inexplicable insatiable level of indignation over WORDS... and are incredibly quick to "forgive" hideous DEEDS.

A2K

[Lindaloo]

Well said A2K!!

[x-y-no]

I don't know ... I've seen a fair amount of coverage of the Seattle shooting incident and not one bit of excusing it. I think every MSM account I've seen about this called it a hate crime. That's being an apologist?

Also, I don't really see why one should be precluded from discussing Mel Gibson because some Pakistani American went on a murderous rampage. Frankly, I don't see what one has to do with the other. For better or worse, we're big on celebrities in this country. If they're going to reap the benefits of that phenomenon, they ought to be prepared to suffer the consequences as well.

[Audrey2Katrina]

I don't know ... I've seen a fair amount of coverage of the Seattle shooting incident and not one bit of excusing it. I think every MSM account I've seen about this called it a hate crime.

Fair amount doesn't suggest equal amount. On the other hand, I have seen very LITTLE coverage of the Seattle incident since it occured. Actually, the ones >I've< seen are saying that he is being CHARGED with a hate crime.. and trust me, the levels of coverage I've seen on this PALES in comparison to the coverage given to Gibson's drunken palaver.

That's being an apologist?

Ummm... I think Linda hit it on the head, you do seem to be looking for an argument. I don't recall identifying any individual report as "being an apologist." What I did say was that "THE" apologists in the MSM are making one excuse after another. I'd say the two are not of necessity one and the same. And I can asssure you I HAVE heard the reports of his neglected childhood, his victimhood this way, and that.. ad nauseum. Yes, it most certainly IS a "Hate" crime.. and at least those covering it as such are reporting that as the charge. I would be willing to wager dollars to doughnuts that a LexisNexis search will show an INCREDIBLY larger number of stories on Gibson's WORDS... than this man's DEEEDS.

Also, I don't really see why one should be precluded from discussing Mel Gibson because some Pakistani American went on a murderous rampage

Straw man-- not what I said at all. All I did was express my dismay that so many people get all worked up over one man's words, while many of the same are very quick to "forgive" another's hideous deeds. Nothing at all was said about precluding what anyone discussed now, was there? What one has to do with the other is called "consistency"... but then again, given the current trends in our society, it is understandable.

I do agree with your "celebrity" assessment, though. There is no doubt that this is central to the issue--had it been something just any old peon had said, I'm certain that beyond, perhaps local coverage of the incident, little if anything would have been said. That said, I still consider it a serious case of overkill.

A2K

[x-y-no]

Well, we'll just have to agree to differ on the "looking for an argument" issue. To me it all appears to be coming from the other side.

Had there been a thread about the Seattle event and I felt I had anything to add to it, I would have posted there.

I commented on Gibson because there was a thread here. I gave my opinion based on my own rather extensive experience with alcoholics and alcohol abuse. I still maintain that the "the Jews are responsible for all the world's wars" rant is not something that would just come out of nowhere. Your counterexamples of freinds saying hurtful things to each other were, I expect, based in knowledge of each other and thus knowledge of specifically what would be hurtful to them as individuals. But the officer's faith was not a matter of record until after this event came to light. There's no reason I can see for Gibson to have assumed that the officer is Jewish and thus manufacture something he doesn't really believe simply in order to be personally hurtful to an officer whose faith he doesn't even know. There's even concrete evidence that he didn't know in the fact that he subsequently asked the officer if he were Jewish.

Somehow, my offering this opinion based on experience and reason merits accusations of wanting to pick an argument. I can't fathom why, but there it is.

[Audrey2Katrina]

Somehow, my offering this opinion based on experience and reason merits accusations of wanting to pick an argument

It is not your "offering" of an opinion that has brought it forth; it was the manner in which it was presented.

No matter, you're as entitled to your beliefs/opinions as is anyone else, and they are just as valid as anyone's--perhaps moreso--who knows?

As far as your "extensive" experience with alcoholics, I certainly can't speak to that; but I can assure you that I, also, have had quite "extensive" experience with them in my 30 years as an educator, and dealing with students through HS and well into and beyond their wild college years. I have also had extensive dealings/work with DARE and other substance abuse programs as well--I too can claim an "experienced" voice. And I still maintain that you can NOT fit everyone into the same pigeonhole with what they will do or say while utterly intoxicated--seen the many varied manifestations of it countless times. The example of the two friends was simply one--given to illustrate that not ALL drunken comments are equal--you cannot come to a generalizing conclusion based one one isolated example, which is something people frequently do. I repeat, it was offered as ONE example. (Just as this Gibson broughaha is ONE)

As far as the "concrete evidence" beyond him asking the officer while in the squad car if he was "a Jew" (which people both sober and drunk frequently do in full knowledge of the answer) there is absolutely no such thing beyond speculation, which both sides can do from now till the time there is lasting peace in the Middle East that could prove this assertion. In fact, LOGIC would lead one to conclude that it is precisely because he knew this, that he launched into this offensive tirade; but again--nothing can be proven here, so why beat a dead horse?

Look, I'm not about to be an apologist for what was obviously a despicable and hateful drunken rant. They were awful, his conduct to be condemned, and from there--move on. After all it was a drunken rant. Again, and this is NOT directed at you, Jan, because I consider you a fair person; but I have noticed on the part of many, many people this inexplicable predilection to forgive, or rationalize away, everything from killing your children to openly supporting terrorists, and even the committing of terrorist acts, while the same kinds of hypocrites all but scream for the vivisection and total disembowelment of anyone guilty of the truly UNforgivable, and that is to "offend" with little more than words. It just boggles the mind.

A2K

[abajan]

Mel is Catholic not Jewish, abajan.

I know that.
Neither my last post nor the one before it were meant to be taken seriously.

It's a serious situation for heavens sake...nothing about it.

One can learn to see the funny side in almost anything if one only tries.

Look, I agree it's a serious situation but not half as serious as some seem to want to make it out to be.

Laughter is good medicine.