North Korea Nuclear Standoff

[Derek Ortt]

well... we are basically giving them the green light since we do NOTHING

[wyq614]

well... we are basically giving them the green light since we do NOTHING

The problem is, if we can't overthrow Kim's Dynasty in a few hours, we can't do anything meaningful by now, because the NK is taking more than 50 million people hostage (including considerable number of Chinese population!)

In my opinion, we should know that in this issue, China and the US should work together because believe it or not we have the same worries as yours.

We don't have to fear NK, I have the confidence that if a regular war is launched between China and NK, we will be able to beat them in a few months, but the problem is the dead cannot be revitalized and no one will pay the loss for the Chinese.

[wyq614]

Besides, I will leave Beijing for my hometown on the day 16 and stay there till September, my hometown Qingdao is a seaport of eastern China and South Korea are located at the other side of the sea.

[Derek Ortt]

well... we are basically giving them the green light since we do NOTHING

The problem is, if we can't overthrow Kim's Dynasty in a few hours, we can't do anything meaningful by now, because the NK is taking more than 50 million people hostage (including considerable number of Chinese population!)

In my opinion, we should know that in this issue, China and the US should work together because believe it or not we have the same worries as yours.

We don't have to fear NK, I have the confidence that if a regular war is launched between China and NK, we will be able to beat them in a few months, but the problem is the dead cannot be revitalized and no one will pay the loss for the Chinese.

the issue becomes do something now and have a lot of dead, or do something later and have a lot dead, except increased by a very large factor

[cycloneye]

U.N. Security Council slaps new sanctions against North Korea


SEOUL, South Korea - The U.N. Security Council on Friday punished North Korea for its second nuclear test, imposing tough new sanctions, expanding an arms embargo and authorizing ship searches on the high seas, with the goal of derailing the isolated nation's nuclear and missile programs.

In a sign of growing global anger at Pyongyang's pursuit of nuclear weapons in defiance of the council, the North's closest allies Russia and China joined Western powers and nations from every region in unanimously approving the sanctions resolution.

The resolution seeks to deprive North Korea of financing and material for its weapons program and bans the country's lucrative arms exports, especially missiles. It does not ban normal trade, but does call on international financial institutions not to provide the North with grants, aid or loans except for humanitarian, development and denuclearization programs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31311394/ns ... iapacific/

[Derek Ortt]

in other words, a whole bunch of nothing!

[Brent]

U.N. Security Council slaps new sanctions against North Korea


SEOUL, South Korea - The U.N. Security Council on Friday punished North Korea for its second nuclear test, imposing tough new sanctions, expanding an arms embargo and authorizing ship searches on the high seas, with the goal of derailing the isolated nation's nuclear and missile programs.

In a sign of growing global anger at Pyongyang's pursuit of nuclear weapons in defiance of the council, the North's closest allies Russia and China joined Western powers and nations from every region in unanimously approving the sanctions resolution.

The resolution seeks to deprive North Korea of financing and material for its weapons program and bans the country's lucrative arms exports, especially missiles. It does not ban normal trade, but does call on international financial institutions not to provide the North with grants, aid or loans except for humanitarian, development and denuclearization programs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31311394/ns ... iapacific/

LAME. The U.N. is totally and completely worthless and a gigantic waste of time and space.

This sanction nonsense is not working in the least. Time for a new plan.

[cycloneye]

China voted in favor of the Sanctions against North Korea,but on the other hand they do the beligerant dance.

China warns against force in carrying out the North Korea sanctions

[wyq614]

China voted in favor of the Sanctions against North Korea,but on the other hand they do the beligerant dance.

China warns against force in carrying out the North Korea sanctions

I see Kim Jong Il smiling in a certain corner... Oops my dear government....

[Ed Mahmoud]

Saw a story today, Kin Jong-Il has unofficially named his youngest son, now addressed in state media as "Brilliant Comrade", as his succesor.


Marxist royalty. Kind of a contradiction in terms.


Pretty much all the -ism's become some version of fascism or another. Cuba is probably as close to a true communist country left, but the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is the dictatorship of two brothers and some close aids. Castro imprisons opponents, but he at least seems to care for the welfare of his people, to a degree.

Can't say the same of Li'l Kim.

[Squarethecircle]

The fact that the UN has not threatened NK with anything more than sanctions is probably a result of continued debate over what should actually be done. Taking action against NK has very, very serious implications. As of yet, the United States and indeed no post-WWII powers have ever needed to make a serious, direct threat to a country possessing nuclear weapons (depending on one's views Japan may have done this during WWII by waging war against the United States). To put it lightly, this is a very touchy situation. Until they come to a decision, it is unlikely the UN will do much more than sit around and pass these kinds of restrictions and condemnations.

I don't seriously believe that the UN thinks that its sanctions will cause NK to fold. These are very top-of-the-line diplomatic minds, which is why they are there in the first place.

[cycloneye]

North Korea is defiant following U.N. sanctions

North Korea threats against Blockade

[Derek Ortt]

The fact that the UN has not threatened NK with anything more than sanctions is probably a result of continued debate over what should actually be done. Taking action against NK has very, very serious implications. As of yet, the United States and indeed no post-WWII powers have ever needed to make a serious, direct threat to a country possessing nuclear weapons (depending on one's views Japan may have done this during WWII by waging war against the United States). To put it lightly, this is a very touchy situation. Until they come to a decision, it is unlikely the UN will do much more than sit around and pass these kinds of restrictions and condemnations.

I don't seriously believe that the UN thinks that its sanctions will cause NK to fold. These are very top-of-the-line diplomatic minds, which is why they are there in the first place.

Not entire true... we did with the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missle Crisis. The crisis was solved immediately by both sides as both sides knew exactly what war meant. We actually reached DEFCON 2 at one point

[Squarethecircle]

I'm not sure NK will be as reasonable.

[vbhoutex]

The fact that the UN has not threatened NK with anything more than sanctions is probably a result of continued debate over what should actually be done. Taking action against NK has very, very serious implications. As of yet, the United States and indeed no post-WWII powers have ever needed to make a serious, direct threat to a country possessing nuclear weapons (depending on one's views Japan may have done this during WWII by waging war against the United States). To put it lightly, this is a very touchy situation. Until they come to a decision, it is unlikely the UN will do much more than sit around and pass these kinds of restrictions and condemnations.

I don't seriously believe that the UN thinks that its sanctions will cause NK to fold. These are very top-of-the-line diplomatic minds, which is why they are there in the first place.

Not entire true... we did with the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missle Crisis. The crisis was solved immediately by both sides as both sides knew exactly what war meant. We actually reached DEFCON 2 at one point

Somewhat OT-Cuban Missle Crisis-Lived in Gulf Breeze, Fl. Short Story-mid-day all bases in the area became off limits to any civilians including those working on them. Military parents began picking up kids at schools. Multiple and massive amounts of planes(current and some not yet announced)began pouring in, all loaded to the gills with missles, bombs, etc.. I have no idea what defcon we went to, but all the Naval and Air Force bases in Northwest FL were on total lockdown. I don't even know the definitions of defcon levels, but I suspect we went further than Defcon2. We were told that our area was one of the first that would be targeted by the Cuban missles. Scary time! JMHO from my experience.

NK standoff is just that for now, but I wonder how long it will be before someone "trips" and causes a confrontation. My fear is that NK doesn't really understand the consequences like Russia and the US did.

[Squarethecircle]

My fear is that NK doesn't really understand the consequences like Russia and the US did.

Possibly one of the reasons why no one has taken any action as of yet.

[cycloneye]

In other words,in this case,lets leave NK fire the first shot and then the others will follow with the consequences for them.

[Squarethecircle]

Given that the general consensus (in the real world, i.e. not NK) is that the continental-capable missiles launched by NK were a failure, we do have some time for deliberation before it's do or die. The US should be safe for some time more as well - ICBMs are very hard to engineer. Given the gravity of the situation, I am all for taking as much time is needed to come up with a sound and effective plan. Rushing into nuclear war headstrong is a very effective way to produce corpses.

Does anyone know if the UN deliberations or the strictly inter-country discussions are available publicly? As in, not just the end products but what those involved actually seriously address? That would probably help us all better understand what the UN, etc. are doing.

[wyq614]

The fact that the UN has not threatened NK with anything more than sanctions is probably a result of continued debate over what should actually be done. Taking action against NK has very, very serious implications. As of yet, the United States and indeed no post-WWII powers have ever needed to make a serious, direct threat to a country possessing nuclear weapons (depending on one's views Japan may have done this during WWII by waging war against the United States). To put it lightly, this is a very touchy situation. Until they come to a decision, it is unlikely the UN will do much more than sit around and pass these kinds of restrictions and condemnations.

I don't seriously believe that the UN thinks that its sanctions will cause NK to fold. These are very top-of-the-line diplomatic minds, which is why they are there in the first place.

Not entire true... we did with the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missle Crisis. The crisis was solved immediately by both sides as both sides knew exactly what war meant. We actually reached DEFCON 2 at one point

In my opinion, Khrushev stopped the crisis because he knows that at that time USSR is weaker than the US in armed forces and also economy, but if Kim thinks NK is strong enough, he won't care the consequences he may face, nor would care the North Koreans under its propaganda. Personally I do not expect that Kim is as conscious as Khrushev as just a human-being, nor that Kim is as responsible to its citizens as the other presidents being a statesman.

Derek Ortt, in the opinion of a Chinese, we don't want a war. We want to develop our country in peace and we have many things to do now. War is not a good option but we can't rule it out completely now.

Now we are good friends in the forum, but the politicians may think that China needs a North Korea by its side, NK may be too rogue, may behave badly internationally, may be exploiting China of its electricity, rice and natural resources (You think we love to aid NK in this way? Absolutely not.), China just needs it, UNTIL the day that China think itself well-developed and have the confidence to face US forces directly. It's a geopolitical matter.

Kim knows it well, so he can do anything he want to.

[cycloneye]

Tensions are rising in the Korean Penninsula.

North Korea warns of a Nuclear War