ATL: EMILY - Remnants

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Re: ATL: EMILY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#5581 Postby stormreader » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:56 am

WxEnthus wrote:
TROPICAL STORM EMILY DISCUSSION NUMBER 7
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL052011
500 AM AST WED AUG 03 2011

DATA FROM AN AIR FORCE HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT INDICATE THAT EMILY
HAS CHANGED LITTLE IN STRENGTH SINCE YESTERDAY. PEAK FLIGHT-LEVEL
WINDS WERE 46 KT AND THE HIGHEST SFMR-OBSERVED SURFACE WINDS WERE 42
KT. THE CURRENT INTENSITY ESTIMATE IS HELD AT 45 KT FOR THIS
ADVISORY. ANALYSES FROM UW-CIMSS AND SHIPS MODEL OUTPUT INDICATE
THAT ABOUT 15 KT OF WEST-NORTHWESTERLY SHEAR IS AFFECTING THE
TROPICAL CYCLONE. THIS IS IN AGREEMENT WITH AIRCRAFT OBSERVATIONS
WHICH INDICATED THAT THE CIRCULATION CENTER IS TILTED EASTWARD WITH
HEIGHT. ALSO...CENTER FIXES FROM THE HURRICANE HUNTERS WERE VERY
NEAR THE WESTERN EDGE OF THE DENSE OVERCAST. SOME STRENGTHENING IS
STILL POSSIBLE...HOWEVER...BEFORE THE CENTER REACHES HISPANIOLA.
NORTH OF THAT ISLAND...THE GLOBAL MODELS DEPICT AN UPPER-LEVEL
ENVIRONMENT THAT LOOKS MORE CONDUCIVE FOR STRENGTHENING WITH AN
UPPER-LEVEL ANTICYCLONE PREDICTED TO DEVELOP NEAR THE BAHAMAS. THE
OFFICIAL INTENSITY FORECAST FOR 2 TO 5 DAYS IS CONSERVATIVE...
HOWEVER...AS IT IS NOT CERTAIN HOW SEVERELY EMILY WILL BE DISRUPTED
BY ITS PASSAGE ACROSS THE VERY MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN OF HISPANIOLA.


THE INITIAL MOTION ESTIMATE REMAINS 285/12. THE TRACK FORECAST
REASONING HAS NOT CHANGED FOR THIS ADVISORY. OVER THE NEXT COUPLE
OF DAYS...EMILY IS EXPECTED TO TURN TOWARD THE NORTHWEST TOWARD A
WEAKNESS IN THE SUBTROPICAL RIDGE. THEREAFTER...THE CONSENSUS OF
THE DYNAMICAL GUIDANCE CALLS FOR THE CYCLONE TO TURN TOWARD THE
NORTH AND MOVE THROUGH THE WEAKNESS IN THE RIDGE. BY THE END OF
THE FORECAST PERIOD...EMILY SHOULD TURN TOWARD THE NORTHEAST AS IT
BEGINS TO BECOME INFLUENCED BY MID-LEVEL WESTERLIES. IN
GENERAL...THE TRACK MODELS HAVE NOT SHIFTED CLOSER TO FLORIDA ON
THIS CYCLE..
.AND THE OFFICIAL FORECAST IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE
PREVIOUS ONE AND ALSO TO THE LATEST ECMWF PREDICTION. IT SHOULD BE
NOTED HOWEVER THAT THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL SPREAD IN THE MODELS AROUND
DAY 3 AND BEYOND...SO THERE IS STILL SIGNIFICANT UNCERTAINTY IN THE
TRACK FORECAST FOR THAT TIME FRAME.


FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 03/0900Z 16.5N 68.1W 45 KT 50 MPH
12H 03/1800Z 17.3N 69.8W 50 KT 60 MPH
24H 04/0600Z 19.0N 71.9W 40 KT 45 MPH...INLAND
36H 04/1800Z 20.7N 73.7W 35 KT 40 MPH...OVER WATER
48H 05/0600Z 22.5N 75.5W 40 KT 45 MPH
72H 06/0600Z 26.5N 78.0W 50 KT 60 MPH
96H 07/0600Z 30.0N 78.5W 60 KT 70 MPH
120H 08/0600Z 33.5N 74.0W 65 KT 75 MPH

$$
FORECASTER PASCH

Highlighting is mine.


"Substantial spread in the models for day 3 and beyond". Well day 3 (72 hours) would be when the storm's coordinates are at a lat near S Fl.
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Re: ATL: EMILY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#5582 Postby Airboy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:58 am

Do they actually look on the real movment or do they hang on the models no matter what?
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#5583 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:59 am

Models once again flip-flopping about I see!

I still think broadly close to the NHC forecast but the NHC may need to shift a little further west.
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#5584 Postby RL3AO » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:03 am

Image
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#5585 Postby Evil Jeremy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:03 am

Shifted to the west, but still expecting NW motion too soon, especially seeing how, according to recon, Emily is still moving west, not WNW like the advisory wants to think. Recon is even finding center south of the advisory. SE FL in 3 day cone. Any more west shifts will have bigger implications for FL now.

Image
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Re: Re:

#5586 Postby WxEnthus » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:08 am

Evil Jeremy wrote:
RL3AO wrote:Hmm. NHC location is a full 0.3 degrees north of two very good center fixes by recon. Hopefully they have a reason and aren't trying to make their forecast look better.


Make that 3 very good center fixes by recon now. The VDM isn't out yet, but they just crossed the center again, and it looks south of their other fixes. Emily isn't moving WNW.

I wondered about that too when I was plotting the centers given by recon compared to the official position of NHC.
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Re:

#5587 Postby WxEnthus » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:11 am

RL3AO wrote:Image

That's the center the NHC gave, yes? Looking at the practically straight lines of the measured wind shifts across the graph, with the two earlier ones marked by dropsondes, it seems like she's moving pretty much due west to me.
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#5588 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:16 am

Yep NHC is north with thier eastimate compared to the recon fixes...probably didn't have time to wait for all the passes so had to go with thier best gut instinct.

A wise NHC forecast I feel, as they say conditions in the Bahamas are very good but obviously Hispaniola will cause damage, even if it misses to the west its going to damage the storm, so thier forecast is a good middle ground.
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Re:

#5589 Postby jlauderdal » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:19 am

Evil Jeremy wrote:Shifted to the west, but still expecting NW motion too soon, especially seeing how, according to recon, Emily is still moving west, not WNW like the advisory wants to think. Recon is even finding center south of the advisory. SE FL in 3 day cone. Any more west shifts will have bigger implications for FL now.

Image


they dont have alot wiggle room here, point of closest approach is about 120 miles, a stronger system could also keep it more to the right, or they could bust completely and we get a storm that heads farther west then expected then comes off hispanola and gets cranking, it only has to continue on a more westerly type of course than predicted for a few hours to affect Florida landfall chances
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#5590 Postby RL3AO » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:21 am

Image

Shown are the 3 VDMs, the 5am center position from the NHC, their first forecast spot at 18z, and the yellow line shows it needs to move NW (305) to reach that forecast point.
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Re: ATL: EMILY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#5591 Postby stormreader » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:27 am

Image

Storm seems to be growing significantly in size in last couple of frames. Know that pressure has fallen for the first time (in days I think) according to last advisory. Wouldn't want to call those emerging feeder bands just yet on the NE and SW sides but in any event the storm area has grown some.
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#5592 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:29 am

RL3AO, not impossible for a short term motion for it to average 305 but it sure seems to be on a pretty solid due west track at the moment doesn't it!
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#5593 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:29 am

Can some one post graphics please!!!

000
URNT15 KNHC 030920
AF306 0705A EMILY HDOB 32 20110803
091000 1730N 06705W 8427 01575 0104 +171 +062 126035 036 026 000 00
091030 1731N 06703W 8429 01574 0105 +172 +061 126038 039 025 001 00
091100 1732N 06702W 8426 01575 0105 +171 +061 126037 038 025 002 00
091130 1733N 06701W 8430 01572 0104 +172 +060 128037 038 027 000 00
091200 1735N 06700W 8425 01577 0106 +171 +060 129038 039 028 000 00
091230 1736N 06659W 8429 01574 0107 +170 +061 130039 040 029 000 00
091300 1737N 06658W 8429 01580 0112 +168 +061 129041 042 027 001 03
091330 1738N 06658W 8426 01582 0117 +165 +061 124040 040 /// /// 03
091400 1739N 06700W 8432 01573 0112 +167 +061 124039 039 024 002 03
091430 1738N 06702W 8423 01578 0108 +167 +062 125038 039 030 000 00
091500 1738N 06704W 8429 01575 0108 +167 +061 125038 038 030 000 00
091530 1738N 06706W 8428 01576 0108 +170 +061 125035 037 029 001 00
091600 1738N 06708W 8431 01572 0104 +173 +060 128032 034 028 001 00
091630 1738N 06710W 8425 01578 0104 +172 +060 126034 036 028 001 00
091700 1738N 06711W 8430 01571 0106 +168 +059 126036 036 027 000 00
091730 1738N 06713W 8425 01577 0107 +165 +059 128038 038 027 001 00
091800 1738N 06715W 8428 01573 0107 +165 +058 130037 038 027 000 00
091830 1738N 06717W 8430 01570 0105 +165 +058 129036 037 027 000 00
091900 1738N 06719W 8425 01574 0105 +163 +058 129037 037 029 000 00
091930 1738N 06721W 8429 01569 0106 +162 +058 131037 038 030 000 00
$$
;
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#5594 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:34 am

000
URNT15 KNHC 030930
AF306 0705A EMILY HDOB 33 20110803
092000 1738N 06723W 8428 01571 0108 +160 +057 129037 037 032 001 00
092030 1738N 06725W 8426 01573 0106 +161 +057 126037 038 034 000 00
092100 1738N 06727W 8428 01568 0103 +164 +058 123037 038 034 000 00
092130 1738N 06729W 8428 01569 0106 +160 +058 124037 037 033 000 00
092200 1738N 06731W 8427 01571 0105 +160 +058 122038 039 033 002 00
092230 1738N 06733W 8430 01565 0103 +162 +058 119041 042 027 000 00
092300 1738N 06735W 8423 01572 0102 +163 +059 122039 041 030 000 00
092330 1738N 06737W 8428 01565 0104 +159 +059 119038 039 033 001 00
092400 1738N 06739W 8421 01572 0105 +153 +058 118041 042 033 002 00
092430 1738N 06741W 8439 01555 0102 +159 +057 113041 041 032 003 00
092500 1738N 06743W 8422 01570 0101 +161 +056 119042 043 034 003 00
092530 1738N 06745W 8430 01562 0109 +149 +055 120042 043 035 005 00
092600 1738N 06747W 8422 01572 0105 +154 +054 115042 043 035 007 00
092630 1738N 06749W 8431 01562 0100 +163 +054 118040 041 034 002 00
092700 1738N 06751W 8427 01564 0100 +160 +053 118042 042 034 000 00
092730 1738N 06753W 8425 01567 0101 +158 +054 117043 044 033 001 00
092800 1738N 06755W 8430 01558 0108 +145 +055 117045 046 035 006 00
092830 1738N 06757W 8429 01560 0105 +147 +055 120046 047 034 006 00
092900 1738N 06759W 8423 01569 0100 +157 +055 120044 045 035 002 00
092930 1738N 06801W 8430 01558 0102 +153 +056 118042 044 034 003 00
$$
;
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Re:

#5595 Postby jlauderdal » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:37 am

KWT wrote:RL3AO, not impossible for a short term motion for it to average 305 but it sure seems to be on a pretty solid due west track at the moment doesn't it!



our local cbs station has their lead weathercaster(lisette is still on too guys) on this morning and he acknowledged this west motion and the fact it better start turning pronto
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#5596 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:41 am

Motion is the slightest shade north of west, maybe 272 something like that between the two recon passes...

That really does need to change soon if its not going to take the slightly less harmful path to the west rather then right over the high ground.
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Re: ATL: EMILY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#5597 Postby JonathanBelles » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:01 am

Here is my graphic showing the differences between the NHC and actual directional heading:

Image

I also made a short blog on the subject: http://jonathanbelles.wordpress.com/201 ... fferences/


Disclaimer 1:The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

Disclaimer 2: All observations here are completely my opinion, but are backed up by recon observations. This is not an attack on the National Hurricane Center, and should not be seen as such. This is a general critique with evidence to back it up.
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Re: ATL: EMILY - Models

#5598 Postby ronjon » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:05 am

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Re: ATL: EMILY - Models

#5599 Postby South Texas Storms » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:13 am

The 6z BAMD takes it into the south central Gulf of Mexico.
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Re: ATL: EMILY - Models

#5600 Postby floridasun78 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:14 am

is HWRF any good model?
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