Death Penalty

[j]

How does the saying go? "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"

And if it's an eye for an eye, why don't we kill women who have an abortion? What's the difference between a woman who has an abortion and Andrea Yates?

A) Because.......we have a law on the books based on Roe V Wade that says its legal. Once that is overturned (and it will be one day), then woman and doctors who make the "choice" to kill a baby, will be subject to the same descretion of the law, that the rest of us are.

B) See A

[sunnyday]

The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill."--not thou shalt kill some and not others. It's quite plain.

[stormchazer]

No, I was referring to the belief by some that it isn't ok to kill killers but it is ok to take the life of an innocent unborn human being. That is what doesn't compute with me, but like I said, I don't think I have the right to enforce it on you, we will all be judged one day for how we lived our lives.

But I also don't think the purpose of government is to legislate morality, that is the job of each of our consciences. The job of government is to punish wrongdoers and commend those who do right.

Don't bow out yet. The only belief I stated in this thread was that if one was hypocritical, then so was the other. Is that what you're referring to?

I agree...to a point. The problem with what you are saying, is that no matter how wrong they are, many people who have abortions believe the fetus is not a human therefore they are not killing. Just as I believe that they couldn't fry Timothy McVeigh fast enough, there are those who believe life is what God gave and no matter how horrible the person is, we have no right to take that life. It is not a black and white issue.

Finally, Government is made up of people. It is not a thing, and therefore peoples perception will play a part. Thats why I have a difficulty trying to decide if I'm pro-death penalty or not.

[opera ghost]

How does the saying go? "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"

And if it's an eye for an eye, why don't we kill women who have an abortion? What's the difference between a woman who has an abortion and Andrea Yates?

The difference is in the deffinition of the beginning of life.

At the moment there is quite a difference in opinion there. I'm on one side- you're on the other. That's cool.

[mf_dolphin]

For those interested in an interpretation of the Bible's stance on the death penalty here's an interesting one..

http://www3.primushost.com/~anderson/deathpen.html

[JCT777]

The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill."--not thou shalt kill some and not others. It's quite plain.

Agreed sunnyday. I probably take a different stance than many on what that means, since a lot of people don't consider capital punishment to be in violation of this commandment. Personally, I do. Therefore, I do not think capital punishment is right, nor do I think abortion is right - save for the rare instance of needing to save the life of the mother.

[JCT777]

For those interested in an interpretation of the Bible's stance on the death penalty here's an interesting one..

http://www3.primushost.com/~anderson/deathpen.html

Marshall - that was a very interesting article, particularly the conclusions. Sounds like this writer does not like the idea of capital punishment either.

[j]

SO....not to pick on you specifically OG, but what you are inferring is that one day its (the fetus) a tissue mass, the next day its a life worthy of the chance to breath.

How exactly is this 'point" determined? A doctor's judegement? I mean its not like deciding what to wear based on the temperature outside.

I'm on the "other" side, and I give the tissue mass the benefit of the doubt since I can't ask said fetus if it would prefer to live or die.

Correct me if I'm morally wrong.

[GalvestonDuck]

How does the saying go? "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"

And if it's an eye for an eye, why don't we kill women who have an abortion? What's the difference between a woman who has an abortion and Andrea Yates?

A) Because.......we have a law on the books based on Roe V Wade that says its legal. Once that is overturned (and it will be one day), then woman and doctors who make the "choice" to kill a baby, will be subject to the same descretion of the law, that the rest of us are.

B) See A

Agreed. And you and Marshall reiterated my point. I knew the answer to my questions.

[blizzard]

For those interested in an interpretation of the Bible's stance on the death penalty here's an interesting one..

http://www3.primushost.com/~anderson/deathpen.html

I have to say that article poses come compelling arguments. Great read, and well constructed article.

[opera ghost]

SO....not to pick on you specifically OG, but what you are inferring is that one day its (the fetus) a tissue mass, the next day its a life worthy of the chance to breath.

How exactly is this 'point" determined? A doctor's judegement? I mean its not like deciding what to wear based on the temperature outside.

I'm on the "other" side, and I give the tissue mass the benefit of the doubt since I can't ask said fetus if it would prefer to live or die.

Correct me if I'm morally wrong.

Ah morals. Morals are different for everyone. You don't have my morals or anyone elses morals so you really can't be morally wrong.

Again- it depends on your deffinition of the beginning of life. I personally am of a mind that once a fetus can live outside the womb (if given a chance) then it's alive. BUT that's a very personal determinant and I don't look down on people who believe that life begins at conception- or people who believe that life begins at birth.

But I've said from the very beginning of explaining my abortion stance that I could, within my own moral code, never be able to live with myself if I had an abortion. Life is just too precious to me and life from myself is so wonderful that there are many things, including my life, that I might be willing to give up in exchange to give that little bit of life a chance to grow.

BUT I won't dictate others views on life or death and I leave those choices in thier hands. It's between me and god- the choices that I make. Not anyone else. I give myself no right to stand and pass judgement on someone who would choose differently... or who believes differently.

I don't judge. It's not my place in life and my choices reflect that. It's a very zen thing for me. I only offer my opinions- I don't seek to condemn or change others opinions- only to offer them a view into my head... if that changes them- then that's between themselves and whatever diety they choose. (or jsut themselves if they choose none)

Therefore I am pro-choice... even if I am inherently pro-life.

[streetsoldier]

BTW, the translators of the KJV got it wrong...the correct Commandment says, "Thou shalt not MURDER" (premeditated).

As to other Biblical authority, read it again...there are many times when God commanded or gave permission to His People to KILL (in war, self-defense).

There IS a difference, folks.

[Guest]

What ever happened to the concept of "Hard Labor"? If we put Ross Peroit in charge of our prison system we would be making a profit instead of spending our tax dollars keeping habitual offenders in food and clothes. Not to mention VCRs, color TV's, weight room etc...

Now this i totally agree with to a point...........I say yes lets put them to work............In most cases anyways these guys are gonna suffer hard anyways once in prison................There is those of course who should be put to death such as those involved with Drugs and Gangs (Or has lots of money) who probably gets protection in prison from other inmates and the such they should die......................Another thing of note i would go as far as removing all access to the outside world from these guys by all means including Mail, Phone and E-Mail if they have it!!!!

[GalvestonDuck]

BTW, the translators of the KJV got it wrong...the correct Commandment says, "Thou shalt not MURDER" (premeditated).

Hmmm...translations of the Bible have been changed to alter one word into another word of only slightly similar connotation? I'd have never guessed.

As to other Biblical authority, read it again...there are many times when God commanded or gave permission to His People to KILL (in war, self-defense).

And in punishment.

Exodus 21:17 says, "Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death."

Leviticus 20:10 says, "If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death."

Leviticus 20:27 says, ""A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortune-teller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death."

Just about everyone who has ever appeared on Jerry Springer needs to be lined up in a death chamber as well as Miss Cleo and LaToya Jackson.

[blizzard]

If they know ahead of time that the punishment for their crimes shall be death, then so be it. "They have no one but themselves to blame for their death", as quoted by GD

[sunnyday]

Streetsoldier,
From what version of the Bible did you get 'Thou shalt not murder"? I've never heard it said that way. Thanks for the info...

[GalvestonDuck]

Streetsoldier,
From what version of the Bible did you get 'Thou shalt not murder"? I've never heard it said that way. Thanks for the info...

I believe it's worded that way in NIV. It all boils down to how things got translated and re-translated in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and English. The Torah prohibits "ratsah" which is "murder" or killing with criminal intent. But somewhere along the line it became "harag" which means "to kill" or to take a life, whether by criminal means or otherwise.

And with that, I'm outta here. Dallas, here I come!

Later all! Keep it civil!

[ColdFront77]

I almost didn't vote... but I said I'll vote "No." No one should be put to death.

I don't know how much further to go with the issue.

[azsnowman]

This is a *little* off topic but here's a link to my BUDDY'S website......Sheriff Joe! I see where there's talk about hard labor in prison, click on the link *About the Sheriff*......I'm tellin' ya's, if EVERY sheriff, police chief, constable in the U.S. was like Joe, there wouldn't be ANY crime, this guy "IS" my hero!

http://www.mcso.org/

Dennis

[azsnowman]

"LOL!" I just clicked on something REALLY cool.....click on the 52 card pick up link, this sheriff is GGGgggggreat!

Dennis