NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

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Teban54
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#941 Postby Teban54 » Sun Oct 26, 2025 10:51 am

kevin wrote:Compared to Milton or Wilma it might 'feel' like Melissa isn't intensifying nearly as fast and has more periods of constant intensity. And while it is true that this won't break the TS -> C5 record time, she still went from a 60 kt TS to a 120 kt C4 within the last 24 hours. The fact that we already knew that Melissa would bomb out long in advance also makes it feel like it's just taking a long time. But Melissa's RI is still extremely impressive.

And much more worringly, Melissa still has about 44 hours left until landfall according to the NHC (or up to 48 - 52 hours if HAFS-A/B are correct). Things don't need to line up perfectly (as is often the case for these worst-case scenarios) for a historic and extremely damaging landfall in Jamaica: it still has time for multiple EWRCs and then another RI phase into a C5 before landfall. I'm afraid this is gonna be Jamaica's 'big one'.

As another point of comparison, quoting from this list of Cat 5 intensification rates that I posted yesterday:

  • Many Cat 5s took 30-48 hours to reach this intensity from a minimal Cat 1. (Even more Cat 5s took longer than 48 hours that didn't make this list.)
  • Camille went from 65 kt to 150 kt / 900 mb at landfall in 36 hours, despite an EWRC in-between. HAFS-A/B are essentially showing the same for Melissa, but with more time before landfall.
  • Ian and Beryl both went from 70 kt to 140 kt in 48 hours, with landfall and EWRC in-between. (The landfall in Cuba was quite significant for Ian.)
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#942 Postby hipshot » Sun Oct 26, 2025 10:53 am

Hypercane_Kyle wrote:There may be another intensification burst... eye is looking more symmetrical with deep convection wrapping around again.

https://i.imgur.com/BOyWhpo.png

When do they predict that Melissa will make the right turn toward Jamaica?
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#943 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sun Oct 26, 2025 10:54 am

hipshot wrote:
Hypercane_Kyle wrote:There may be another intensification burst... eye is looking more symmetrical with deep convection wrapping around again.

https://i.imgur.com/BOyWhpo.png

When do they predict that Melissa will make the right turn toward Jamaica?


Not until tomorrow night. We've got 36 hours of this thing just loitering near Jamaica making up its mind where it wants to go.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#944 Postby Hurricane2022 » Sun Oct 26, 2025 10:58 am

She looks terribly beautiful. Likely intensifying again
Image
Image
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#945 Postby Hurricane2022 » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:01 am

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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#946 Postby USTropics » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:03 am

Teban54 wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:
Teban54 wrote:I could be reading too much into this, but...

A new burst of eyewall convection just appeared, immediately next to the "dry air channel" and near the convective blob. It's the strongest that I recall seeing this morning.

Could this be an attempt at shielding off the dry air and reintensifying?

https://i.imgur.com/05iLUyU.gif

I think this is true. Yesterday when this occurred, it seemed to follow this order of events:
1- prominent band forms, initially as a discrete blob, near the periphery of the cdo. Intensification levels off.
2- blob stretches into more of a classic band appearance, a moat between this band and the cdo becomes apparent.
3- new cells appear in the moat, eventually filling in as the original prominent band is gradually pushed farther away from the cdo and begins to lose influence.
4- new bursts begin to appear in the cdo/eyewall as the prominent band continues to weaken.
5- intensification resumes as eyewall bursts become stronger and band weakens further/dissipates.
If this is a repeatable sequence of events for today, I think we’re at the 4th point by now. We should watch to see if the band gets further removed from the core, new banding forms in the dry moat, and if new bursts continue to occur in the eyewall over the next couple hours.

I think you're onto something. From the loop below, you can also see the new burst attempting to quickly turn itself into the new CDO (which has wrapped around 70% of the eyewall since the last frame of the loop). The blob is also showing clear separation from the core: Melissa's center has been slowly drifting W, while the blob remained somewhat stationary.

https://i.imgur.com/hWMlJhF.gif

This is quite similar to the huge burst yesterday that kickstarted the ERI (the loop here shows the whole process). For reference, the start of this loop was exactly when USTropics wrote the detailed explanation, which was quoted again upthread.

The main differences I see are:

  • When the burst happened yesterday, the nearby blob has already greatly weakened. (You can see initial stages of that blob here a few hours earlier.) Right now, however, the SE quad of the blog is still quite active even when the new burst is already wrapping around.
  • This process yesterday happened when Melissa was still a minimal hurricane. Since it's at a much higher intensity now, EWRC (or at least eyewall melds) may complicate things.


I think both of these explanations are really good for some of the inner dynamics we are seeing. We're also not getting a true VHT here, but rather a strong vertical ascent along the entire periphery of the inner core in these regions (essentially full on vertical ascent of the inner core). We would typically see this degrade as we wrap around upshear (northwest and southwest regions) and away from the more unstable environment (aided by the drier air mass entrainment region), but that's not always the case like you stated.

Zooming out some, the undercutting shear limiting the outflow is definitely a contributing issue here as well. Conservation of mass (i.e., air can't be created or destroyed), so we limited advection away from the center of the cyclone and sinks -> we limit how much air Melissa's updrafts can evacuate -> we are capping her MPI.

I think there is some slight restrictions to inflow due to the eastern topography of Jamaica occurring as well (in addition to a drier background state to the west of Melissa). You can see it here in the surface flow:
Image

Also in this 100 frame meso-loop, the convection immediately collapses as it hits the coast (with no landmass, some of this moisture-laden inflow would reach Melissa):
Image

It's a very minor factor given Melissa's more southern position, but something to consider here given current longitude position.
Last edited by USTropics on Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#947 Postby Nimbus » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:04 am

kevin wrote:Compared to Milton or Wilma it might 'feel' like Melissa isn't intensifying nearly as fast and has more periods of constant intensity. And while it is true that this won't break the TS -> C5 record time, she still went from a 60 kt TS to a 120 kt C4 within the last 24 hours. The fact that we already knew that Melissa would bomb out long in advance also makes it feel like it's just taking a long time. But Melissa's RI is still extremely impressive.

And much more worringly, Melissa still has about 44 hours left until landfall according to the NHC (or up to 48 - 52 hours if HAFS-A/B are correct). Things don't need to line up perfectly (as is often the case for these worst-case scenarios) for a historic and extremely damaging landfall in Jamaica: it still has time for multiple EWRCs and then another RI phase into a C5 before landfall. I'm afraid this is gonna be Jamaica's 'big one'.


There was still a little dry air in the environment that gets entrained and detrained fairly quickly in a cat 4.
11 AM NHC discussion seeing the north turn Monday.
The trough that will steer her north will have plenty of dry air behind so we can hope Melissa gets greedy and decides to expose her core to environmental drier air during an EWRC.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#948 Postby chaser1 » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:11 am

Just want to shout out a quick "THANKS" to fellow members for imparting some really insightful details and analysis regarding a few micro characteristics at hand that play into a major hurricane's subtle fluctuations, RI, and the often occuring "secondary" or appendage blob affect that seems to occur in an number of Atlantic basin storms. The combination of a great satellite and radar presentation along with well explained & concise explanation makes for a great sit-back with popcorn visual learning event :team:
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#949 Postby WaveBreaking » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:11 am

Image
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#950 Postby Teban54 » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:12 am


2025 probably has the highest average eye quality on record. Every single MH this season was an eye candy to look at.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#951 Postby eastcoastFL » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:16 am

The thunderstorms on the northern side of the storm continue to build in to the north on radar at a pretty impressive rate. Once she makes her turn the Jamaican coast is going to be under a relentless attack for quite some time.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#952 Postby Blown Away » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:26 am

Melissa is like a predator that has cornered prey and slowly circling around waiting to pounce on Jamaica… :double:
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#953 Postby aspen » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:27 am

The eye is starting to become a little asymmetrical again, perhaps another bit of dry air got in.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#954 Postby Sciencerocks » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:27 am

Image
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#955 Postby USTropics » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:34 am

aspen wrote:The eye is starting to become a little asymmetrical again, perhaps another bit of dry air got in.


Again, this is mainly mid-level features we are looking at given distance, but I'm seeing a distinct moat developing on radar now (basically an inner eyewall -> moat/weak gradient -> outer eyewall forming):
Image

This is normally a precursor to a full-on EWRC.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#956 Postby WaveBreaking » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:40 am

Is Jamaica's met website broken for anyone else too? I was trying to see radar but barely anything's loaded.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#957 Postby USTropics » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:46 am

WaveBreaking wrote:Is Jamaica's met website broken for anyone else too? I was trying to see radar but barely anything's loaded.


It's definitely chugging (understandably). Brian McNoldy has his radar loops here:

https://bmcnoldy.earth.miami.edu/tropics/radar/
Image

What you can do here - https://metservice.gov.jm/daily-forecast/radar/

As long as you can get to the radar loop, go all the way to the last step (even if an image doesn't appear). Right click -> copy image address -> paste that in a different tab/window. That should load the latest available image.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#958 Postby WaveBreaking » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:48 am

USTropics wrote:
WaveBreaking wrote:Is Jamaica's met website broken for anyone else too? I was trying to see radar but barely anything's loaded.


It's definitely chugging (understandably). Brian McNoldy has his radar loops here:

https://bmcnoldy.earth.miami.edu/tropics/radar/
https://bmcnoldy.earth.miami.edu/tropics/melissa25/Melissa_25Oct25_jamaica_480.gif

What you can do here - https://metservice.gov.jm/daily-forecast/radar/

As long as you can get to the radar loop, go all the way to the last step. Right click -> copy image address -> paste that in a different tab/window. That should load the latest available image.


Thanks! The site's definitely not used to all the traffic it's getting atm.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#959 Postby BobHarlem » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:48 am

WaveBreaking wrote:Is Jamaica's met website broken for anyone else too? I was trying to see radar but barely anything's loaded.


This mirror works well and doesnt have any gaps

https://flhurricane.com/imageanimator.php?960
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#960 Postby Hurricaneman » Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:51 am

Looks like an ERC is underway, will probably have a rather large eye after midnight
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