Does anyone here still think Ivan was a Cat 2 at landfall?

[logybogy]

FYI: the pictures are not linked from the storm2k site. Linking the images has no effect on storm2k's bandwidth.























Lots more image galleries here.

http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/new ... ries.shtml

[Stormchaser16]

Anyone that thinks that was anything less then a 3 needs their head seriously examined....... bottom line

[clueless newbie]

I am not saying that it was Cat2, but all the pictures shown show storm surge damage. Yes, storm surge was Cat4+, no arguing there.

Where is the wind damage indicating Cat3/4?

[chris_fit]

ouch.

great link thanks.

[Stormchaser16]

There is no wind damage indicating a cat 4, because it wasnt a cat 4, it was a 3....

Some structural damage to small residences and utility buildings with a minor amount of curtainwall failures. Mobile homes are destroyed. Flooding near the coast destroys smaller structures with larger structures damaged by floating debris. Terrain continuously lower than 5 feet ASL may be flooded inland 8 miles or more.


It says SOME structual damage to small residences and utility buildings, look around at any pictures a little bit inland and im sure you will see that, cat 3's do NOT totally rip down houses inland away from the coast and storm surge

[JtSmarts]

Here we go again

[djti]

Yes, storm surge was Cat4+,

hurricane 101:

Q: what causes storm surge?
A: wind

[Stormchaser16]

GREAT point..........

[Lindaloo]

I believe he was a strong CAT 3 at landfall with gusts to CAT 4.


Here in MS, I believe we had CAT 1 winds. Some of the damage I have seen suggests this.

[clueless newbie]

Yes, storm surge was Cat4+,

hurricane 101:

Q: what causes storm surge?
A: wind

A bit oversimplistic, aren't we?

There was cat4 wind over large area not that long before landfall, hence CAT4 storm surge. Where was Charley's Cat4 storm surge? He definitively was a Cat4.

My feeling was that Ivan was Cat3 at landfall, and Cat3 winds were actually over relatively small area (at least small compared to his overall size). Even the area hit by hurricane force winds was realtively small, not the 90miles out from the eye.

Is there a page with maximal sustained winds/gusts recorded for Ivan?

[logybogy]

I think it was a strong Cat 3 along the coast, 115mph-130mph sustained to a few miles inland. The barrier islands obviously got this wind.

Inland 5 miles + the sustained winds were lower because of the moderating effects of land. Probably strong cat 2 of 100 mph sustained or more with certain places getting lower end cat 3 winds of 110-120 mph sustained.

[george_r_1961]

If Ivan was a Cat 2 at landfall then im Santa Claus

[NC George]

Surge and wave height are related to wind speed, distance and duration. In order to get monster waves, it takes a strong wind, for a long time, over a long stretch of ocean.

This explains Andrew and Charlie not having a lot of storm surge damage, while Ivan did. Andrew and Charlie both shot up to their peak catagories just hours before landfall, not allowing the water enough time to pile up in front of the eye. Furthermore, both were small hurricanes, with the strongest winds over a smaller area. Ivan, on the other hand, was large in size and going in and out of cat 4/5 for days leading up to landfall and weakened just before landfall. All the water still had momentum from the journey across the GOM.

So what I'm saying here is that surge is not directly related to the landfall intensity, it more related to the intensity in the 4-48 hours before landfall.

[debbiet]

Exactly...great explaination~those waves that build up when they are really strong for a really long time have to go somewhere...and since Ivan was so close to landfall before he began to diminish you had huge storm surge even if the actual winds coming on shore weren't Category 4. Hurricane Isabel last year was a prime example of this as well...huge, strong hurricane for long duration that diminished nearing landfall=catastrophic storm surge flooding and tons of water pushed into the Chesapeake Bay.

[ncbird]

I had herd someone on CNN remark as Ivan made landfall he was 1 miles short of being a cat 4. From the looks of the damage that has been along the coast and what I have seen from Cat 3 landfall here, I would say he was one mighty 3. There is no way a Cat 2 would produce the surge it took to do that damage.

NCBird

[WXBUFFJIM]

The bottom line is it was a deadly hurricane. A cat 3 sounds more likely IMO. The bottom line is folks had absolutely no business to be in those barrier islands after the damage pics I noticed. Quite honestly it only aggreviated the already active tropical season in the Atlantic. They say all it takes is 1. But we had 3 systems and Ivan could cost as muc as Frances and Charley combined when the final damage tallies come in.

Jim

[debbiet]

Absolutely true. It doesn't really matter at all what it was when it came on shore...It was deadly and the damage was done. But...the majority of deaths have occurred well away from landfall and have continued right on up the entire east coast long after Ivan ceased to be a hurricane. To focus on landfall is the most "exciting" I guess, but to not look past it is short-sighted. So as horrible as it is for them (and I definitely don't mean to diminish that horror in any way) FL & AL don't have a monopoly on this disaster...it continues as we write.

[SouthernWx]

I haven't seen storm surge damage so complete and devastating since Hugo in 1989. IMO the barrier islands and immediate coastline from Navarre westward to Fort Morgan went underwater....totally innundated.

Regardless of the wind speed, IMHO Ivan is the most intense and destructive hurricane along the northern Gulf coast since hurricane Camille. In fact, other than Camille, the only landfalling GOM hurricanes since 1950 this destructive have been Betsy, Carla, and possibly Audrey.

[WXBUFFJIM]

The inland flood and tornado threat was very bad also. It proves that it's not only the landfall point we need to worry about, but the inland impact. We saw with Camille in 1969 after the landfall the flooding impacts. There was extreme flooding in SW Virginia with Camille's remnants. Just another proof that landfall is not the only impact, but inland impacts as well.

Prelim reports from yesterday include 64 tornadoes in the Mid Atlantic. There was 114 tornadoes preliminarily from Ivan. This is preliminary as future surveys will determine the exact tornado count, which will take sometime to determine.

Jim

[HurricaneBill]

I haven't seen storm surge damage so complete and devastating since Hugo in 1989. IMO the barrier islands and immediate coastline from Navarre westward to Fort Morgan went underwater....totally innundated.

Regardless of the wind speed, IMHO Ivan is the most intense and destructive hurricane along the northern Gulf coast since hurricane Camille. In fact, other than Camille, the only landfalling GOM hurricanes since 1950 this destructive have been Betsy, Carla, and possibly Audrey.

Definitely Audrey! Audrey had a 20 ft storm surge that killed nearly 600!