Texas Winter 2016-2017

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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1441 Postby Brent » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:57 pm

Ntxw wrote:
Cerlin wrote:So, on the models, what is the most logical chance for the DFW area to have snowfall in the next coming weeks?


Slim, but better your average chance :D. Really though, if you are hoping for snow on Christmas at least there is a well modeled storm for awhile now. It is better than last year, when we were waiting on how warm it was going to get.


yeah I think it'll be an improvement over last year... I hope... :lol:

Edit: A big storm for New Years Eve this run too(but this is 384 hours out, pure fantasy)

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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1442 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:01 am

Looks fun on NYE.

I'll never see 20 in MT and will ski in some below zero. I can't wait to document my January trip to Yellowknife where I hope to experience 20 to 40 below while camping with the Inuits.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1443 Postby Golf7070 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:21 am

Ntxw wrote:
Golf7070 wrote:Ntxw,i know we are fixing to enter a ugly period after this cold blast. How long you think it lasts? Will it take a mjo to shake things up? I think mjo may be in bad phases right now. Hopefully tropical forcing shifts where we want it


I would not call it a bad period for us. It is a terrible pattern if you are on the east coast and southeast. For Texas we are kind of in between ridges. Storms and cold air bleeds from the west. The runs that bump southeast ridging we get a little warm, no bump and it stays seasonable to slightly below.

You have to be careful getting info from social media. They are heavily biased towards the eastern seaboard. A bad pattern for them often is beneficial to us. The west and plains is not being torched by the southeast ridge.


I live in ne arkansas ntxw so its tuff
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1444 Postby A.V. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:34 am

gboudx wrote:I'm looking forward to A.V.'s data that shows the Sunday arctic front won't be a big deal and will only be cool. It would be an epic bust of a blue norther becoming nothing more than a garden-variety cool front.


gpsnowman wrote:I'm sure it has something to do with a massive SE ridge extending to the Phillpines that is going to swat all the arctic air back where it came from because arctic air has no business making it this far south. I'm thinking this front has a different idea. I have the data but my dog ate it.


Trust me, this thing will be a failure; the only debate will revolve around how much of a fail it is (slight, or severe).

Think about it. The previous arctic blast this month was supposed to bring SE TX the first freeze of the season, and yet temps didn't even get close to freezing (no lower than 38-39F), not even the areas north of I-10 were the freeze warnings were. Denton was supposed to be in the teens, and yet it only bottomed out in the lower 20s.

The forecast is basically hanging on the thread that is US snowfall cover. From what I see right now, there doesn't appear to be too impressive of amounts over the country. All that bare land can make all the difference in regards to cold front moderation, and things can be quite exponential if enough of that land remains:
http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/ ... scover.gif

And, as always, moisture from the Gulf and/or E-Pac always ends up streaming in, and making a cloud layer that prevents temps from bottoming out too much; it happened on the night of the "Polar Vortex" (Jan 7, 2014), when Houston was supposed to reach teens, but instead bottomed out no lower than 21F for Bush, and 25F for Hobby.

And where is the HP and it's trajectory? That can make all the difference in regards to how cold Texas gets; from what I've seen, it looks to be too far east up north, meaning that there'd have to be a westerly component to the trajectory in order to strike Texas the way it has to for the forecast to be correct, and as we've seen, weather has a west-east trend during the fall-spring period:
http://www.weather.gov/forecastmaps

Records to check the temps on any particular dates in question:
http://w2.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=fwd
http://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=hgx

Therefore, I just don't see this degree of temperature swing and cold happening. Of course, they are always fine-tuning these temperatures based on real-time trends, so they still have to chance to make the necessary corrections to be as accurate as possible.
Last edited by A.V. on Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1445 Postby A.V. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:37 am

Ntxw wrote:I would not call it a bad period for us. It is a terrible pattern if you are on the east coast and southeast. For Texas we are kind of in between ridges. Storms and cold air bleeds from the west. The runs that bump southeast ridging we get a little warm, no bump and it stays seasonable to slightly below.

You have to be careful getting info from social media. They are heavily biased towards the eastern seaboard. A bad pattern for them often is beneficial to us. The west and plains is not being torched by the southeast ridge.


And it varies even within the state as well. Depending on the angle of these ridging patterns, I've seen it such that a SE ridge would encompass eastern Texas, and far southern Texas (RGV), leaving the rest of the state out.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1446 Postby Brent » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:59 am

Euro looks interesting Christmas Night... low near the Arklatex, west of 35 there is very cold air aloft. Can't tell if there's any precip from the tidbits maps but I imagine it's similarish to the GFS. For some reason the meteogram I use hasn't even started loading yet...

Doesn't seem to be anything newsworthy before that.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1447 Postby A.V. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:10 am

If Houston/coastal Texas is without a freeze by early/mid January, then for all intents and purposes, winter is over for those areas; they would likely remain frost-less for the entire season:
Image
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/when-to- ... ay-of-year
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1448 Postby Ntxw » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:29 am

A.V. wrote:Trust me, this thing will be a failure; the only debate will revolve around how much of a fail it is (slight, or severe).

Think about it. The previous arctic blast this month was supposed to bring SE TX the first freeze of the season, and yet temps didn't even get close to freezing (no lower than 38-39F), not even the areas north of I-10 were the freeze warnings were. Denton was supposed to be in the teens, and yet it only bottomed out in the lower 20s.

The forecast is basically hanging on the thread that is US snowfall cover. From what I see right now, there doesn't appear to be too impressive of amounts over the country. All that bare land can make all the difference in regards to cold front moderation, and things can be quite exponential if enough of that land remains:
http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/ ... scover.gif

And, as always, moisture from the Gulf and/or E-Pac always ends up streaming in, and making a cloud layer that prevents temps from bottoming out too much; it happened on the night of the "Polar Vortex" (Jan 7, 2014), when Houston was supposed to reach teens, but instead bottomed out no lower than 21F for Bush, and 25F for Hobby.

And where is the HP and it's trajectory? That can make all the difference in regards to how cold Texas gets; from what I've seen, it looks to be too far east up north, meaning that there'd have to be a westerly component to the trajectory in order to strike Texas the way it has to for the forecast to be correct, and as we've seen, weather has a west-east trend during the fall-spring period:
http://www.weather.gov/forecastmaps

Records to check the temps on any particular dates in question:
http://w2.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=fwd
http://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=hgx

Therefore, I just don't see this degree of temperature swing and cold happening. Of course, they are always fine-tuning these temperatures based on real-time trends, so they still have to chance to make the necessary corrections to be as accurate as possible.


Those are good reasons why it may not get THAT cold in general. But we're still looking for numbers and your specific thoughts on this blast since you referenced this specific outbreak against professional meteorologists and local WFO forecasts. Sounds like a Houston freeze may be what you are looking for then from your posts? "Epically fail" does not help a reader here who is uninformed and does not have ability to forecast. When you make such a claim often you will be asked to clarify what it is that you see. For example if lack of snow cover is the case, then please reference that with the projected temperatures along with a model of your choice or NWS forecast projecting your thoughts for that specific event.

Otherwise just hyperbole does not add much to the discussion without backing of sound data.

Now is also a good time as a reminder for all to read the storm2k Rules and Guidelines.

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=87189

Repetitive posts in multiple threads is not welcome here. The discussion on this matter will end here effective immediately.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1449 Postby Cerlin » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:07 am

Ntxw wrote:
Cerlin wrote:So, on the models, what is the most logical chance for the DFW area to have snowfall in the next coming weeks?


Slim, but better than your average chance :D. Really though, if you are hoping for snow on Christmas at least there is a well modeled storm for awhile now. It is better than last year, when we were waiting on how warm it was going to get.


I'll take it! :D
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1450 Postby Ntxw » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:11 am

By this evening and tonight we should be able to track the cold front especially in Kansas as there will be a fairly sharp distinction of temperatures in that state. Should move quickly south toward the Texas/Oklahoma Panhandles.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1451 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:14 am

For a few runs now, the long range absolutely overloads Canada with brutal cold and then a nice -EPO, -WPO AND slightly positive PNA form.... and here it comes as we enter January. NAO is still positive so the air shouldn't rush to the SE.



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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1452 Postby Yukon Cornelius » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:38 am

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:Looks fun on NYE.

I'll never see 20 in MT and will ski in some below zero. I can't wait to document my January trip to Yellowknife where I hope to experience 20 to 40 below while camping with the Inuits.

-40 is not fun at all! I thought I loved extreme cold until I experienced it. It's just painful!
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1453 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:53 am

Yukon Cornelius wrote:
ThunderSleetDreams wrote:Looks fun on NYE.

I'll never see 20 in MT and will ski in some below zero. I can't wait to document my January trip to Yellowknife where I hope to experience 20 to 40 below while camping with the Inuits.

-40 is not fun at all! I thought I loved extreme cold until I experienced it. It's just painful!


I have some military grade clothing for this one.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1454 Postby Yukon Cornelius » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:01 am

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:
Yukon Cornelius wrote:
ThunderSleetDreams wrote:Looks fun on NYE.

I'll never see 20 in MT and will ski in some below zero. I can't wait to document my January trip to Yellowknife where I hope to experience 20 to 40 below while camping with the Inuits.

-40 is not fun at all! I thought I loved extreme cold until I experienced it. It's just painful!


I have some military grade clothing for this one.

You should definitely be fine. Sitka gear was my best friend during that cold. Enjoy it!
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1455 Postby aggiecutter » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:30 am

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:Christmas night is cold and aggiecutter may see some snow in texarkana


Our last white Christmas was 2012, with 4" of snow. Hopefully, we will get at least get a few flakes on Christmas night.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1456 Postby hriverajr » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:56 am

None of the GFS runs lately look conducive for any frozen precip for central texas and points south for the forseeable future. I have yet to see one favorable run for such.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1457 Postby Ntxw » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:05 am

hriverajr wrote:None of the GFS runs lately look conducive for any frozen precip for central texas and points south for the forseeable future. I have yet to see one favorable run for such.


I love your avatar sir. That is some great work :lol: Almost like our version of the wicked witch of the east for cold mongers
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1458 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:12 am

hriverajr wrote:None of the GFS runs lately look conducive for any frozen precip for central texas and points south for the forseeable future. I have yet to see one favorable run for such.


I was referring to NE Texas.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1459 Postby hriverajr » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:14 am

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:
hriverajr wrote:None of the GFS runs lately look conducive for any frozen precip for central texas and points south for the forseeable future. I have yet to see one favorable run for such.


I was referring to NE Texas.


Actually I'm not bullish on anyone other than the panhandle getting any type of significant winter weather from what I see at the moment. I also think this upcoming cold front will be quite dry... maybe a few flurries in north Texas, but it appears to dry out very rapidly with the front.
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Re: Texas Winter 2016-2017

#1460 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:28 am

Long range upper air pattern.

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Last edited by ThunderSleetDreams on Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:36 am, edited 6 times in total.
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