Texas Winter 2019-2020

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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2001 Postby Brent » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:49 pm

Texas Snow wrote:Yeah with each GFS run I dread seeing it disappear, not because one run means anything, but because that would be a move towards the others. But each time it stays the same also adds a degree of confidence. Can’t wait to see how this pays out...


I'm definitely cautious because it seems theres more support for it being away from the metro

Yes I get the GFS has been consistent but I learned a long time ago that doesn't mean it's right and also the Euro has been consistent showing nothing in Dallas
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2002 Postby stormlover2013 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:57 pm

Models struggle with cold air so still a waiting game
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2003 Postby Cerlin » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:10 pm

Still early.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2004 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:24 pm

I wish the UkMet had Ptype/rate on pivotal weather, the temperature profiles aren't there yet for DFW, but it's close. Also all the main models are now forming a secondary low, but the GFS being more progressive with the trough doesn't form it until Georgia, where as the Euro and Ukmet form it near or off the Texas coast. Again, it's hard to see when the UkMet is forming storms using only 6 hour precip, but the 12z run supports a 3-day severe weather outbreak speaking in terms of atmospheric potential only.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2005 Postby Haris » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:30 pm

No mention of the euro showing light snow over Central Texas?
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2006 Postby orangeblood » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:54 pm

bubba hotep wrote:12z Euro inline with the EPS, that pretty much seals the deal for DFW. Looks like maybe some snow showers but any significant winter wx will likely be well West of DFW.

ETA: GEFS mean favors the Euro/EPS solution and that makes the 12z GFS a major outlier in the model data.


Not so sure about that...GEFS mean is trending more and more towards the SE, DFW mean is now 1-2 inches of snow. This one isn't set by any means yet!
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2007 Postby bubba hotep » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:48 pm

orangeblood wrote:
bubba hotep wrote:12z Euro inline with the EPS, that pretty much seals the deal for DFW. Looks like maybe some snow showers but any significant winter wx will likely be well West of DFW.

ETA: GEFS mean favors the Euro/EPS solution and that makes the 12z GFS a major outlier in the model data.


Not so sure about that...GEFS mean is trending more and more towards the SE, DFW mean is now 1-2 inches of snow. This one isn't set by any means yet!


It would just be nice to see the Euro/EPS combo trending towards a bigger event for DFW and not away from that.

Anyway, 12z ensembles

GEFS

Image

EPS

Image

CMCE

Image
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2008 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:39 pm

It's 84 hour NAM but right now it's closer to the Euro than the GFS at the 500mb vorticity level. The Canadian seems to be in the middle. I will say, if you really want a big snow storm the UkeMet and Euro are actually better. However, DFW is going to want those models to trend south and really dig that trough. The GFS might be delivering snow, but again, it's probably going to be a narrow band and not everyone would see some.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2009 Postby Texas Snow » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:57 pm

I still see you GFS :eek:

Keep up the fight
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2010 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:04 pm

Honestly if the GFS is right about this storm it's basically a coup. Even the Icon has been trending more towards the Canadian and Euro. My main reason to pause on the GFS is because it's progressive nature with the trough is a known bias. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong and I've seen it score coups before.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2011 Postby Cerlin » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:05 pm

Let’s hope they all start trending to the GFS location.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2012 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:06 pm

The GFS also has a near non-existent severe weather event for the Gulf Coast, which would be good news.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2013 Postby Ntxw » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:09 pm

TheProfessor wrote:It's 84 hour NAM but right now it's closer to the Euro than the GFS at the 500mb vorticity level. The Canadian seems to be in the middle. I will say, if you really want a big snow storm the UkeMet and Euro are actually better. However, DFW is going to want those models to trend south and really dig that trough. The GFS might be delivering snow, but again, it's probably going to be a narrow band and not everyone would see some.


I would agree with you here. Yes the GFS has nice surface clown snow maps but the upper level is a real needle in a haystack on that model. There is little room for error. While the others don't show surface snow you can always trend colder and or more pullback precip with a much more wound up system. We want something in between, with cold a little stronger than modeled at the upper levels.

Of course the central Texas folks wants the more progressive GFS :D
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2014 Postby bubba hotep » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:20 pm

Ntxw wrote:
TheProfessor wrote:It's 84 hour NAM but right now it's closer to the Euro than the GFS at the 500mb vorticity level. The Canadian seems to be in the middle. I will say, if you really want a big snow storm the UkeMet and Euro are actually better. However, DFW is going to want those models to trend south and really dig that trough. The GFS might be delivering snow, but again, it's probably going to be a narrow band and not everyone would see some.


I would agree with you here. Yes the GFS has nice surface clown snow maps but the upper level is a real needle in a haystack on that model. There is little room for error. While the others don't show surface snow you can always trend colder and or more pullback precip with a much more wound up system. We want something in between, with cold a little stronger than modeled at the upper levels.

Of course the central Texas folks wants the more progressive GFS :D


I wonder if we will see a bit of a shift on the 18z Euro towards the GFS? I think eventually we will see a bit of give on both models as they trend towards the middle to account for know bias - GFS too progressive & Euro holding energy back too much.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2015 Postby TropicalTundra » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:34 pm

How did you know? :D :crazyeyes:
Ntxw wrote:
TheProfessor wrote:It's 84 hour NAM but right now it's closer to the Euro than the GFS at the 500mb vorticity level. The Canadian seems to be in the middle. I will say, if you really want a big snow storm the UkeMet and Euro are actually better. However, DFW is going to want those models to trend south and really dig that trough. The GFS might be delivering snow, but again, it's probably going to be a narrow band and not everyone would see some.


I would agree with you here. Yes the GFS has nice surface clown snow maps but the upper level is a real needle in a haystack on that model. There is little room for error. While the others don't show surface snow you can always trend colder and or more pullback precip with a much more wound up system. We want something in between, with cold a little stronger than modeled at the upper levels.

Of course the central Texas folks wants the more progressive GFS :D
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2016 Postby Texas Snow » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:43 pm

FWD:


.LONG TERM... /NEW/

/Monday through Friday/

Above normal temperatures are anticipated for the start of the
first full week of February. Thereafter, the primary forecast
concern will revolve around the potential for storms and winter
weather across North and Central Texas late Tuesday and into
Thursday. The bottom line is that there could be a brief period
for strong storms across East Texas on Tuesday. The best chance
for winter precipitation will be near and northwest of a Comanche
to Mineral Wells to Gainesville line. It is here that some travel
problems may develop due to snow/sleet and possibly very light
icing. While other areas across North and Central Texas may
experience a mix of winter precipitation, impacts should be
limited to elevated surfaces such as bridges and overpasses. There
is still some uncertainty regarding the forecast, so be sure to
check back for details. What is just about guaranteed is that
it`ll turn much, much colder late Tuesday into Wednesday.

Breezy south to southwesterly winds will overspread the region on
Monday and for parts of the day on Tuesday, as surface
cyclogenesis commences across western Kansas. Low level WAA may
result in a few showers late Monday...especially across East
Texas. Tuesday will be mild and humid with a continuing risk for
isolated showers. As the 996mb low transits eastward into the
Flint Hills, a strong cold front---seemingly Arctic in nature---
plunges southward through the Great Plains. Current upstream
observations across the western Canadian Provinces (Northwest
Territories and Yukon) indicate temperatures in the 10 to 20
degree below zero range. While becoming largely modified, it`s
appearing more probable that this cold airmass will make a run
southward.

What has been the computer model trend over the past 12-24 hours?
The most significant change is that guidance has trended colder.
While the latest ECMWF does remain on the warmer side of the
guidance envelope, it has sped up the progression of the Arctic
front. As noted yesterday, these types of frontal boundaries are
oftentimes misrepresented in coarser model guidance. The 12 and 18
UTC NAM support the surprisingly consistent GFS with a fast FROPA
through the entire area by 00 UTC Wednesday. With the ECMWF
trending colder and the additional NAM guidance...I`ve nudged
temperatures downward below blended guidance for most of the area
on Tuesday and Wednesday...though parts of Central Texas may
still bake in the pre-frontal air late Tuesday morning/early
Wednesday afternoon. It will also be quite windy behind the front
and while a little early, I could certainly see the need for a
Wind Advisory across most of the area Tuesday and into Wednesday.
While highs on Wednesday will be in the 30s and 40s (colder if the
latest ECMWF is to be believed), it`ll feel as if it were in the
teens and twenties for parts of the area! There is very high
confidence that it`ll at least be wind and cold, so individuals
should be prepared for that!

Ahead of the front...a corridor of richer low level moisture (60
degree dewpoints) will funnel northward. With sufficient low
level convergence along the front, there could be a risk for
showers and thunderstorms. Mid-level flow is around 50-60 knots,
suggesting the presence of some deep layer wind shear. Instability
may build up to around 800 J/kg and there may be an attempt at
some organized convective modes..capable of gusty winds and small
hail. However, the speed of the Arctic airmass will likely
undercut convective updrafts and I believe that this will hamper
the severe weather risk for our area. If the front slows, the
severe weather threat may ramp up some.

NAM guidance does dry the troposphere out rather quickly in the
wake of the front and this would spell a quick end to
precipitation and little to no winter weather across the area
(just cold and dry). The GFS and ECMWF suggest a bit more in the
way of remnant moisture post-FROPA. Forecast soundings from the
GFS and ECMWF certainly support a p-type of rain transitioning
briefly to a freezing rain and eventually a snow/sleet mix. The
most likely area for winter precipitation will be near and
northwest of a Comanche to Mineral Wells to Gainesville line.
Forecast soundings support a classic moderate snow/sleet
precipitation type with a very saturated sub-freezing column with
a decent isothermal layer just atop the surface. Moreover, there
appears to be ascent within the dendritic growth zone and this
could lead to some respectful snow/sleet rates and I believe
accumulating snows are looking increasingly likely to the
northwest of the D/FW Metroplex. NBM snowfall probabilities/mean
snowfall amounts have also increased and support 1 to near 2" of
snow/sleet for areas near and northwest of the Comanche to
Gainesville line. If any banded precipitation structures establish
themselves (which looks like a reasonable chance), higher amounts
are possible somewhere across the region. We`ll have a closer
look at the potential for accumulating winter in the next few
forecast packages before any winter weather headlines.

Further to the southeast (including the Sherman/Denison...D/FW
Metroplex and Waco/Temple/Killeen areas), I`m expecting a
potential for a light mix of snow, sleet and rain. As it stands
right now, it`s less likely that banded precipitation structures
establish themselves along this corridor, and I don`t expect much
in the way of widespread snow/sleet/ice accumulation. However,
there may still be a slick spot or two on area bridges and/or
overpasses. Across East Texas and the Brazos Valley, mostly a cold
rain along with a snowflake or sleet pellet cannot be ruled out,
but impacts are expected to be very minimal.

Precipitation chances should taper of on Thursday, but much colder
conditions are anticipated with highs in the 40s and 50s. If it
looks increasingly likely that we`ll have a snow pack across the
area, parts of western North Texas and the Big Country may be even
colder than advertised. It looks like we`ll be headed for a much
warmer end to the outlook period as southwest flow develops and
allows temperatures to climb into the 60s.

Bain
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2017 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:50 pm

...Deep longwave trough evolving over the Western U.S.... ...Surface wave activity developing over the lower/mid MS Valley... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Preference: Blend of 12Z NAM/CMC/ECMWF and 12Z GEFS/00Z ECENS means Confidence: Slightly above average The 12Z GFS again just as it in previous runs continues to be too progressive with the evolution of the deep longwave trough evolution over the Western U.S. over the next few days. The GFS in being more progressive with its height falls also results in the GFS being more out of tolerance with the remaining guidance concerning the developing surface wave activity over the central/southern Plains and especially the lower/mid MS Valley by Monday. The 12Z UKMET does appear to be a bit slow with the trough progression toward the High Plains by the end of the period, but the remaining guidance led by the 12Z NAM, 12Z CMC and 12Z ECMWF, and also the latest GEFS/ECENS means show generally good agreement with the trough timing/depth and surface wave activity. A blend of the non-GFS/UKMET will accordingly be preferred. ...Northern stream trough clipping the northern Plains Tuesday... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Preference: Non-UKMET blend Confidence: Above average The guidance shows a progressive northern stream trough clipping the northern Plains by Tuesday. The 12Z UKMET is on the fast side of the guidance with this system with the remaining models rather well clustered. So, a non-UKMET blend will be preferred for now.

Here's WPC voicing my concerns, they're throwing out the GFS and UkMet(I can agree with this, the UkMet is an extreme on the other side). It will be interesting to see which side the NAM trends towards once we get within 60 hours.
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2018 Postby Cpv17 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:56 pm

My goodness, the 18z GFS :eek:
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2019 Postby Brent » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:13 pm

Lol these GFS snow maps have me dying :double: :lol:

Image
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Re: Texas Winter 2019-2020

#2020 Postby TheProfessor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:20 pm

I have friends in Ohio rooting for the UkMet and friends in Texas rooting for the GFS :lol: Ironically meeting somewhere in the middle could work out better for both.
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