Texas Winter 2024-2025

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orangeblood
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5721 Postby orangeblood » Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:37 pm

Ntxw wrote:
Ralph's Weather wrote:
aggiecutter wrote:Some on here have very short, or selective, memories. The EURO's snowfall forecast for Northern and NE Texas was awful for last week's storm. It consistently forecast 8-10" of snow for this area for about 5 days. The northern suburbs of DFW received some snow, but not anywhere near the forecasted 8-10". Texarkana received no snow at all, but we had a significant Ice-Storm. The 8-10" of snow the EURO consistently forecast for this area ended up in the Ouachita Mountains of Central Arkansas.

That's not a bad forecast on the Euro. That is a miss by 1 degree. Euro was great on last storm.


I agree and that was a temperature profile miss, not necessarily a pattern miss. It's a different set up.


Yep, Euro nailed the QPF and 500 mb for a really impressive time frame….6-7 days out. None of the others came anywhere close to the consistency from that distance.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5722 Postby orangeblood » Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:43 pm

Ntxw wrote:We do need to look for more qpf now though, this set up is all about how much moisture we can get unlike the last time. While we don't like the GFS, too cold for moisture is a problem but there is enough of a northern stream to agitate the flow. It's an overall not as potent with moisture event which was pretty secure with the last system.

You want it to dig far to the west to draw up Pacific and Gulf at the mid and lower levels. And maybe a little less cold would help.



Dig and open up more towards a positive-neutral tilt and this will be a fun one to track
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5723 Postby Throckmorton » Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:49 pm

Where did the record smashing Arctic air for Austin go? The very high air pressures will be there....

According to the rainy GFS operational model (Jan. 15th, 18Z run), here are the forecasted temperatures and noon–time pressures for Austin Camp Mabry:

60–42...Saturday, 1/18
44–33...Sunday (1032 mb)
46–28...Monday (1036 mb)
43–38...Tuesday (1041 mb)
56–40...Wednesday (1030 mb) (rain)
55–43...Thursday (1024 mb) (rain)
53–40...Friday
55–39...Saturday, 1/25
64–45...Sunday

And just for fun, here is the Australian ACCESS–G model's forecast for Austin Camp Mabry (Jan. 15th, 00Z run):

58–42...Saturday, 1/18
42–32...Sunday (1028 mb)
37–29...Monday (1029:mb) (snow; 0.4 inches)
38–30...Tuesday (1040 mb) (snow; 0.4 new inches)
48–27...Wednesday (1040 mb)
52–32...Thursday (1032 mb)
46–43...Friday, 1/24 (model run ends at 6 pm CST)
Last edited by Throckmorton on Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5724 Postby Brent » Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:52 pm

Nearly a week after the snow here :double:

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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5725 Postby Throckmorton » Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:59 pm

The various AI chat platforms do not research anything. They simply spit out data they've been fed. They are often wrong.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5726 Postby HockeyTx82 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:10 pm

Throckmorton wrote:The various AI chat platforms do not research anything. They simply spit out data they've been fed. They are often wrong.


I would do more research before you just make a simple statement that is inherently false for the purpose I am using AI for in this case.

It’s a common misconception that AI chat platforms like me simply regurgitate data. While I do rely on vast amounts of information, there's more finesse involved in how I find and provide answers. Here’s a peek under the hood at how Copilot works in terms of finding data:

1. **Knowledge Base**: I'm built on a robust foundation of information from various sources, including books, articles, and verified data. This allows me to have a broad understanding of many topics.

2. **Web Search Capability**: To provide the most accurate and up-to-date information, I can perform web searches in real-time. If someone asks me a question and I need more current data, I can search the web and retrieve the latest information, often complete with citations for credibility.

3. **Contextual Understanding**: I don't just pull random facts; I understand context. This means I can tailor my responses to be relevant to the conversation. I use the context from previous turns and the broader conversation to ensure my answers are appropriate and make sense.

4. **Synthesis and Interpretation**: When I provide information, I synthesize and interpret data to give a cohesive, understandable answer. I draw from multiple sources and cross-check facts to reduce the likelihood of errors.

5. **Continuous Learning**: My knowledge isn't static. While I'm constantly being updated, I also adapt based on interactions to improve over time.

So, when I provide information, it's not just a random guess or a recycled fact—it's a curated, well-considered response based on a combination of pre-existing knowledge and the latest data I can find.

Does this help clarify how I find and deliver data?

Here's a link to learn more about me: [Microsoft's privacy statement](https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement).
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5727 Postby HockeyTx82 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:14 pm

Throckmorton wrote:The various AI chat platforms do not research anything. They simply spit out data they've been fed. They are often wrong.



I'm not sure why I even waste my time.
Last edited by HockeyTx82 on Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5728 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:14 pm

Throckmorton wrote:Where did the record smashing Arctic air for Austin go? The very high air pressures will be there....

According to the rainy GFS operational model (Jan. 15th, 18Z run), here are the forecasted temperatures and noon–time pressures for Austin Camp Mabry:

60–42...Saturday, 1/18
44–33...Sunday (1032 mb)
46–28...Monday (1036 mb)
43–38...Tuesday (1041 mb)
56–40...Wednesday (1030 mb) (rain)
55–43...Thursday (1024 mb) (rain)
53–40...Friday
55–39...Saturday, 1/25
64–45...Sunday

And just for fun, here is the Australian ACCESS–G model's forecast for Austin Camp Mabry (Jan. 15th, 00Z run):

58–42...Saturday, 1/18
42–32...Sunday (1028 mb)
37–29...Monday (1029:mb) (snow; 0.4 inches)
38–30...Tuesday (1040 mb) (snow; 0.4 new inches)
48–27...Wednesday (1040 mb)
52–32...Thursday (1032 mb)
46–43...Friday, 1/24 (model run ends at 6 pm CST)



Well we know the GFS is wrong, sooooo…. Yeah toss it
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5729 Postby Throckmorton » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:20 pm

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:
Throckmorton wrote:Where did the record smashing Arctic air for Austin go? The very high air pressures will be there....

According to the rainy GFS operational model (Jan. 15th, 18Z run), here are the forecasted temperatures and noon–time pressures for Austin Camp Mabry:

60–42...Saturday, 1/18
44–33...Sunday (1032 mb)
46–28...Monday (1036 mb)
43–38...Tuesday (1041 mb)
56–40...Wednesday (1030 mb) (rain)
55–43...Thursday (1024 mb) (rain)
53–40...Friday
55–39...Saturday, 1/25
64–45...Sunday

And just for fun, here is the Australian ACCESS–G model's forecast for Austin Camp Mabry (Jan. 15th, 00Z run):

58–42...Saturday, 1/18
42–32...Sunday (1028 mb)
37–29...Monday (1029:mb) (snow; 0.4 inches)
38–30...Tuesday (1040 mb) (snow; 0.4 new inches)
48–27...Wednesday (1040 mb)
52–32...Thursday (1032 mb)
46–43...Friday, 1/24 (model run ends at 6 pm CST)



Well we know the GFS is wrong, sooooo…. Yeah toss it


"We" do not know that. Time will tell. Thank goodness we have archives.
Last edited by Throckmorton on Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5730 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:22 pm

no that 18z GFS is most definitely going to be wrong lol
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5731 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:29 pm

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:
Throckmorton wrote:Where did the record smashing Arctic air for Austin go? The very high air pressures will be there....

According to the rainy GFS operational model (Jan. 15th, 18Z run), here are the forecasted temperatures and noon–time pressures for Austin Camp Mabry:

60–42...Saturday, 1/18
44–33...Sunday (1032 mb)
46–28...Monday (1036 mb)
43–38...Tuesday (1041 mb)
56–40...Wednesday (1030 mb) (rain)
55–43...Thursday (1024 mb) (rain)
53–40...Friday
55–39...Saturday, 1/25
64–45...Sunday

And just for fun, here is the Australian ACCESS–G model's forecast for Austin Camp Mabry (Jan. 15th, 00Z run):

58–42...Saturday, 1/18
42–32...Sunday (1028 mb)
37–29...Monday (1029:mb) (snow; 0.4 inches)
38–30...Tuesday (1040 mb) (snow; 0.4 new inches)
48–27...Wednesday (1040 mb)
52–32...Thursday (1032 mb)
46–43...Friday, 1/24 (model run ends at 6 pm CST)



Well we know the GFS is wrong, sooooo…. Yeah toss it
Last edited by Cpv17 on Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5732 Postby Quixotic » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:38 pm

Colder than the last air mass to bring winter precip to the state is almost certain. FWIW, I hope it’s wrong for selfish reasons as I don’t want to drive from Austin to DFW in those conditions. A three hour drive can turn into a 12 hour nightmare. Other than that I’d love to see the southern portions get their winter wx.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5733 Postby DW5522 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:49 pm

aggiecutter wrote:Some on here have very short, or selective, memories. The EURO's snowfall forecast for Northern and NE Texas was awful for last week's storm. It consistently forecast 8-10" of snow for this area for about 5 days. The northern suburbs of DFW received some snow, but not anywhere near the forecasted 8-10". Texarkana received no snow at all, but we had a significant Ice-Storm. The 8-10" of snow the EURO consistently forecast for this area ended up in the Ouachita Mountains of Central Arkansas.

It wasn’t to far off I’m in Grayson county and 8 to 10 is exactly what I got, and I’m pretty sure fannin county received pretty much the same thing. Just shifted north 50 miles or so from its forecast. That’s too bad
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5734 Postby downsouthman1 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:53 pm

DW5522 wrote:
aggiecutter wrote:Some on here have very short, or selective, memories. The EURO's snowfall forecast for Northern and NE Texas was awful for last week's storm. It consistently forecast 8-10" of snow for this area for about 5 days. The northern suburbs of DFW received some snow, but not anywhere near the forecasted 8-10". Texarkana received no snow at all, but we had a significant Ice-Storm. The 8-10" of snow the EURO consistently forecast for this area ended up in the Ouachita Mountains of Central Arkansas.

It wasn’t to far off I’m in Grayson county and 8 to 10 is exactly what I got, and I’m pretty sure fannin county received pretty much the same thing. Just shifted north 50 miles or so from its forecast. That’s too bad
That shift placed me on the wrong side of history. We got like 1" sleet, which it rained on. Then tried to snow like 0.5" as storm was departing lol.

Overall though, models performed admirably.
Last edited by downsouthman1 on Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5735 Postby TheAustinMan » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:54 pm

When it comes to the possibility of reinforcing cold surges... and any possible disturbance that may draw moisture into that cold, much of that has to do with the current extension of the jet stream over the open North Pacific, which has been and will continue to wiggle about like a sprung door stopper, sending out various troughs and ridges out into western Canada and the Pacific Northwest, which thanks to the extension of the PV over central Canada will tumble over the Rockies into our area. There are certainly many planes over the North Pacific from trans-Pacific air travel, but they're not capturing a very considerable depth of the atmosphere. At this range, it is too far out to predict with reasonable accuracy the specifics of smaller shortwave kinks in the broader pattern originating from such data-sparse areas.

The deterministic guidance can be enticing to follow closely, because they give neat, singular snapshots, but right now, the ensembles (and trends in said ensembles) are your friend. The initial surge of cold air, being more larger scale, is in the realm of reasonable predictability. It's tricky to predict exactly how cold it'll be, but the usual wisdom is that these strong blasts of cold air that run down the Plains against the Rockies tend to come in faster than synoptic guidance... an artifact of the lower resolution of those models. That airmass is the gift of the broader, larger-scale (maybe even planetary scale) troughing pattern, which is why the general sketch of anomalous cold is easier to predict, why those CPC probabilities went up so quickly, and why "colder than the last cold snap" can seem like a very reasonable, perhaps even likely take. What is less certain is any followup bursts of cold that ride down the larger trough, because those are more likely to be driven by smaller-scale features which have yet to be well-sampled. The staying power of the cold will hinge on those smaller perturbations, and the path those perturbations themselves take determine how effective moisture moves into the region. Too weak, and too little moisture gets dredged up from the Pacific/Gulf for much precipitation to happen. Too late, and the cold air warms up just enough to allow the moisture pull to be a little too overwhelming, spoiling the cold air with warmth.

What is nice about the deterministic guidance at this range is they help you spot failure modes, or success modes, depending on if you're wxman57 or not. For example, the 18z GFS fails to amplify a shortwave over the Rockies Monday/Tuesday, opting to instead reel a spaghetifying bit of vorticity obliquely around a longwave. The result -- Texas takes a more glancing blow from the cold air, ridging is able to reestablish behind the trough (which wouldn't happen if the shortwave amplified!), southerly flow comes back, and poof, the cold air gets replaced by a miserable cold rain. The 18z GEFS mean is more cautious than the GFS. Those ensembles have been warmer than their Canadian and European counterparts, but still show considerably more vorticity (a la stronger shortwave) over the SW US than the deterministic GFS. Is the GFS a canary in the coalmine or being a ruse? Well, wait till those possible disturbances responsible for reinforcing cold or wintry precip get better sampled, or better yet, even exist in the first place.

Source: TropicalTidbits
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5736 Postby DW5522 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:03 pm

downsouthman1 wrote:
DW5522 wrote:
aggiecutter wrote:Some on here have very short, or selective, memories. The EURO's snowfall forecast for Northern and NE Texas was awful for last week's storm. It consistently forecast 8-10" of snow for this area for about 5 days. The northern suburbs of DFW received some snow, but not anywhere near the forecasted 8-10". Texarkana received no snow at all, but we had a significant Ice-Storm. The 8-10" of snow the EURO consistently forecast for this area ended up in the Ouachita Mountains of Central Arkansas.

It wasn’t to far off I’m in Grayson county and 8 to 10 is exactly what I got, and I’m pretty sure fannin county received pretty much the same thing. Just shifted north 50 miles or so from its forecast. That’s too bad
That shift placed me on the wrong side of history. We got like 1" sleet, which it rained on. Then tried to snow like 0.5" as storm was departing lol.

Overall though, models performed admirably.

Some time ya get the shift, and sometimes the shifts you
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5737 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:05 pm

Throckmorton wrote:
ThunderSleetDreams wrote:
Throckmorton wrote:Where did the record smashing Arctic air for Austin go? The very high air pressures will be there....

According to the rainy GFS operational model (Jan. 15th, 18Z run), here are the forecasted temperatures and noon–time pressures for Austin Camp Mabry:

60–42...Saturday, 1/18
44–33...Sunday (1032 mb)
46–28...Monday (1036 mb)
43–38...Tuesday (1041 mb)
56–40...Wednesday (1030 mb) (rain)
55–43...Thursday (1024 mb) (rain)
53–40...Friday
55–39...Saturday, 1/25
64–45...Sunday

And just for fun, here is the Australian ACCESS–G model's forecast for Austin Camp Mabry (Jan. 15th, 00Z run):

58–42...Saturday, 1/18
42–32...Sunday (1028 mb)
37–29...Monday (1029:mb) (snow; 0.4 inches)
38–30...Tuesday (1040 mb) (snow; 0.4 new inches)
48–27...Wednesday (1040 mb)
52–32...Thursday (1032 mb)
46–43...Friday, 1/24 (model run ends at 6 pm CST)



Well we know the GFS is wrong, sooooo…. Yeah toss it


"We" do not know that. Time will tell. Thank goodness we have archives.


Old fashioned forecasting tells me that operational run is put to lunch. Yeah. That won’t happen
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5738 Postby Brent » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:23 pm

I just can't take the GFS serious without thinking about all the runs that had a snow hole here the entire 384 hours around the time I went to Kansas City for the blizzard :lol: that was 4 days out from us getting 6 inches of snow(which was the snowiest day at the airport in 14 years) how could it be so wrong
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5739 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:38 pm

Brent wrote:I just can't take the GFS serious without thinking about all the runs that had a snow hole here the entire 384 hours around the time I went to Kansas City for the blizzard :lol: that was 4 days out from us getting 6 inches of snow(which was the snowiest day at the airport in 14 years) how could it be so wrong


Well I got an inch of rain today and a few days ago it wasn’t even supposed to rain here today.
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Re: Texas Winter 2024-2025

#5740 Postby Brent » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:40 pm

Cpv17 wrote:
Brent wrote:I just can't take the GFS serious without thinking about all the runs that had a snow hole here the entire 384 hours around the time I went to Kansas City for the blizzard :lol: that was 4 days out from us getting 6 inches of snow(which was the snowiest day at the airport in 14 years) how could it be so wrong


Well I got an inch of rain today and a few days ago it wasn’t even supposed to rain here today.


I mean to be fair most of the models did poorly last week here(and I don't need to bring up DFW on the other end) ... nobody expected us to get 6 inches of snow but still. The GFS was a legendary failure to me :lol:
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