Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

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wxman57
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5921 Postby wxman57 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:39 am

Where was I? I was sleeping. Went to bed at 8pm last night.

Let's take a look at what's happening. I'll look at Dallas, as that that seems to be where the battleground is. As you may remember, my main concern 3-4 days ago was that the GFS was predicting too much available moisture so far north (0.90"). As I said, typical West Gulf lows produce heaviest precip over coastal counties, not 200+ miles inland. Sure enough, the GFS dropped the prediction of such heavy precip in Dallas and now predicts a more reasonable 0.2 to 0.3". The NAM is in line with this precip prediction, by the way.

Over the past weekend, the models indicated that temps in the D-FW area would stabilize slightly below freezing at the surface, suggesting significant snow accumulations. However, recent runs (GFS & NAM) are forecasting surface temps 2-4 degrees warmer. Such temps would not be so conducive to accumulations, even if most of the precip falling is snow. Let's take a look at a current GFS sounding forecast for Dallas:

http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/readyout/1160 ... f_anim.gif

Note that the red line (temperature) is to the left of the freezing level (0 deg C diagonal line) the whole time, with the exception of a shallow layer of above-freezing temps right at the ground. It's very critical if the surface temp is 34 or 31. In past events, the models have tended to err on the warm side, so I think there's a good chance they're doing so again with this system. But that's no guarantee. It would just take a little more southward surge of the sub-freezing surface layer to put D-FW in an all snow and accumulating event.

Next comes the question of available moisture. I think the models may have a good handle on moisture. 0.2 to 0.4" of precip would suggest POSSIBLE snow accumulations up to 2-3 inches. That's if it's all snow and if surface temps are colder than forecast. At least one big "if" there.

Let's take a look at the latest meteograms. First the GFS:
Image

Now the NAM:
Image

There was some talk of dewpoints so low that surface temps may fall well below what was currently forecast by the D-FW NWS office. But dewpoints aren't that low. Once the precip starts, the dewpoints will rise quickly to the lower 30s.

So for the D-FW area to get 2-3" of snow, the surface temps will have to be a few degrees lower than forecast. This could happen if just a tad more cold air moves just a little farther south. It's going to be a close call. I suspect that the D-FW office isn't too far off with their forecast. Snow mixed with rain at times. Surface temps just a degree or two too warm to prevent accumulations on paved surfaces. Could see an inch or two accumulation on grassy and/or elevated surfaces. But it's a really close call and a hard one to make.
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#5922 Postby txagwxman » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:40 am

ECMWF rain/snow mix tomorrow Dallas, then changing to snow in the afternoon. Then changes over to snow for Tyler Thur evening. Waco may change over to snow Thu afternoon...Austin/CLL/IAH rain, but could change over to snow midnight CLL.

GFS/NAM seem too warm compared to the GEM/UKMET/ECMWF.

If the GEM/UKMET/ECMWF right ACT, CLL, TYR, GGG, FTW,DFW, TPL will all see snow Thu afternoon/evening.

Watch the next round of models...but again the NAM seems too warm to me at this time. 12Z upper air profiles over DFW are dry and cold enough for snow.
Image
The 2m temps from the ECMWF are in the 34-35F range tomorrow DFW.
Last edited by txagwxman on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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msstateguy83

#5923 Postby msstateguy83 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:40 am

yeah i agree sorry about that didnt mean to get anyone overly excited i also just noted surface obs.. however it is noteworthy :wink: the 12z now will be VERY interesting... however will it be on shore when the nam comes out? i havent looked at the latest sat but i do know the nam should be out in just a little bit...
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5924 Postby Weatherdude20 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:44 am

Its possible a few light flurries could be reaching the ground, but all the local airports/stations, are reporting overcast skies. Its not likely reaching the surface. Its one heck of a Virgastorm though! :wink: HOWEVER I believe whats begining to take place is evaporative cooling, that is where the precip(Light Snow) is falling from the uper atmosphere and not reaching the surface and helps to steadily drop temps. This could help us here in the Metro area if that occours here ! So its just false returns from light snow falling in the upper atmosphere.
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5925 Postby bktkck » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:47 am

Big thanks to wxman57 and all the other pro mets that come on here to share their knowledge.
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#5926 Postby Dustan78 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:50 am

There was snow on the WFAA radars this morning as well, in the mid cities area.
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#5927 Postby Dustan78 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:52 am

BTW, thanks to this site, i am totally addicted to model watching! I never knew how addicting it could be!

I can't wait for Hurricane season on this site, that is already my favorite time of year, and now i have this place to share my addiction with, its great!

Thanks to everyone for all their input and knowledge!
Dustan
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5928 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:54 am

It should be noted that HPC has thrown out the American models on their guidance this morning. This storm could catch a lot of people off guard starting Thursday afternoon.
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msstateguy83

Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5929 Postby msstateguy83 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:57 am

orange what is hpc showing now?
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5930 Postby Dustan78 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:01 am

msstateguy83 wrote:orange what is hpc showing now?


Looks like it is showing snow for dfw starting at the 12z.
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msstateguy83

Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5931 Postby msstateguy83 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:02 am

nm i pulled it up... Image
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5932 Postby Dustan78 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:02 am

msstateguy83 wrote:orange what is hpc showing now?


Looks like it is showing snow for dfw starting at the 12z.
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Weatherdude20

Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5933 Postby Weatherdude20 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:05 am

orangeblood wrote:It should be noted that HPC has thrown out the American models on their guidance this morning. This storm could catch a lot of people off guard starting Thursday afternoon.


I totally agree I have been saying that since early yesterday that Thursday late afternoon/Evening(thru overnight), I see the snow bands working right through the metro, possibly training at times, and thats when temps will actually be 31-33 ish and droping as the sunset nears, and this is when the heavier accumulations will be likely.
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#5934 Postby txagwxman » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:08 am

New NAM below freezing from 950 mb all the way up for DFW tomorrow.
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5935 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:18 am

The other thing I have a hard time understanding is regarding the warmer ground temperatures the Fort Worth office keeps on referring to. I mean the surface has been in the deep freeze for the past 3 mornings and the air temperature has had a hard time getting out of the 30's. It's not like its been in the 60's all week. Doesn't add up.
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5936 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:22 am

It took awhile but the 12Z NAM is coming more in line with the Canadian and European models.
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5937 Postby iorange55 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:26 am

One thing I am just not understanding is the local weather people NWS and local weatherman. How can they be so sure it'll be all rain when only the GFS AND NAM show maybe Rain. Just barely rain. When they were just showing a big snowstorm.



And now the 12z Nam is back to it's older run, and more in our favor. But I suppose that's just another eye trick like last night. I am confused.
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5938 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:34 am

I would suspect Fort Worth would put up Winter Storm watches soon. The potential seems there for more than 4 inches of snow from this storm.
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Weatherdude20

Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5939 Postby Weatherdude20 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:34 am

Im serious- at this point forget what NWS and news say... :spam: :spam: :spam:

NOTE: NWS QPF totals .5-.6 for Metro :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: .1" liquid = 1" of snow!

Lol :froze:
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Re: Texas winter wx thread (2009-2010)

#5940 Postby HockeyTx82 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:42 am

If my memory serves me correctly our low temp for tomorrow night was 31, now it 26? That seems to go well fun us....

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.ph ... 2=-97.1309

Perhaps some of that cold air will show sooner then expected.
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