2007/2008 Snow coverage graphics

[jimvb]

These maps show some heavy snow cover in Alaska and western Canada. Maybe this is the result of an icefree warm, Arctic Ocean nearby last September, causing moisture to build up, resulting in lots of rain and then as it got colder, snow.

Of course all this ice and snow reflects solar heat, causing global cooling. Global warming causes global cooling, just like a rise in oil prices causes a drop in oil prices. There are negative feedbacks working all over the place.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

Yes more moisture would mean some more snow for north canada.

[Aquawind]

Pretty solid winter so far. A skiers delight alright.

[HarlequinBoy]

Great coverage to start off February.

[jimvb]

I clicked on the link to the page with the snow/ice graphics that are displayed on this thread. It gave me this notice:

"The Satellite Analysis Branch (SAB) will discontinue production and distribution of the daily Northern Hemisphere snow/ice charts beginning tentatively on February 14, 2008. After this date, this function will be assumed by the National Ice Center (NIC), a multi-agency operational center operated by the United States Navy, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration., and the United States Coast Guard. A NIC link containing the near real-time and historical record of Northern Hemisphere snow/ice charts will be provided on this site the week of Jan 28. NIC will generate snow/ice charts (both the ASCII and image products) in the same formats, spatial resolution and temporal frequency currently generated by SAB. Please check this site for further updates, and address any questions to SSDWebmaster@noaa.gov."

This warning appears on http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/SNOW/index.html . I found a link to NIC on the page and clicked on it, but I could not find anywhere on it a link that leads to the white/yellow snow/ice charts. Will the charts still appear the same after Valentine's day, but under control of NIC instead of the satellite group? Or will there be major changes? Certainly we want to see what is happening with Arctic ice due to global warming. This past year, we had a record low and now possibly a record high in Arctic ice, and I think it is due to climate change caused by humans.

[Extremeweatherguy]

February 10th, 2007:


Current:


The arctic ice cap is definitely a little bit thicker and more spread out than at this same point last year (especially along the west coast of Alaska and along the northeastern coast of Canada). There is also more in the way of snow pack over the northern hemisphere in general.

[jimvb]

Nice map, but will this product go away next week? Will we be able to see what the snow and ice cover are from these maps after February 14?

[Aquawind]

Hi Jim, As it reads SSD will be discontinuing the the product around early March. They do mention that National Ice Center will take over and produce very similar products. The only link I see on the SSD page pointing to those grapics simply takes you to the NIC. http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/SNOW/index.html

I looked on the NIC site and seems all I could find was ice related products and didn't find the expected snow products. Could be they are not available yet and won't be untill the SSD is done. I dunno. You could go to the NIC page and email them for further information. http://www.natice.noaa.gov/

[Aquawind]

Pretty good coverage for Feb 7th. Nice snow pack out west for a change!

[Aquawind]

Still some good coverage and depth..

[jimvb]

I take note that the graphics that I included in a message about a year and a half ago no longer work. They are on Page 1 of this thread. They continue to say 2008 March 2. To get the current graphics, go a couple of messages above that, to a NOAA link. Click on that, and then find in the notice that says they are discontinuing producing the maps a link to take you to where they are now. Click on that, and you will get the current maps.

I think the expansion of ice has stopped. It is either on time or somewhat early. Now the question is how much of this ice will melt by September.

[Aquawind]

They have a link for the "New Graphic" on the National Ice Center website http://www.natice.noaa.gov/

Yesterday's N.A. coverage





Northern Hemisphere coverage- They have this archiving now with a date in the URL and thus graphics won't change as you mentioned. Unfortunately they just started this archive.



USA Snow Depth




I know the thinking in northen MN is a possible early ice out this year. They have had alot of snow on the ice all season and the insulation has prevented good ice production even with -40F and some serious cold temps.

Related to the sea ice I notice the trend for coverage in Feb has increased in the last fews years if I am reading this Trend graph right. http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/index.html

[Aquawind]

Wow! The more sun we have the less snow we have.. Amazing. There should be another couple of swaths, but for the most part were about to begin the home stretch for you folks who had a real winter in the northland.

[jimvb]

Aquawind, I think you mean http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims . Without the ims, you get just the front page with no indication of where the graphics are.

I looked at 2008 March 10, the peak of marine winter. Lake Erie is frozen, as well as about 60-70% of Lakes Huron and Superior, while Lakes Michigan and Ontario remain ice-free. To me there has been no substantial retreat of the ice, and the snow is hanging tough in the East, but it is melting nicely in the Plains and West. My prediction is for most of the Arctic Ocean to be ice-covered in 2008 September, but that almost all the Arctic ice will be gone in September 2009.

One product that I will miss is their 30-day movie. Now I have to download all the graphics and use Animation Shop.

[Aquawind]

Very good jimvb. I would be interested in seeing your ice movies...never thought I would say that..almost like watching paint dry..lol

[CaptinCrunch]

Snow and Arctic Ice coverage way ahead of last year, and summers warmer than avg temps have now turned to falls colder than avg temps.

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=10&fd=20&fy=2007&sm=10&sd=20&sy=2008

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/CT/animate.arctic.0.html

[jimvb]

It seemed like the same amount of snow as last year. So I tried comparing the two charts, rotating the colors of the 2007 chart as R->G, G->B, B->R, and then averaging it with 2008. This is the result:



The color code is as follows:

Salmon - Ice in both years
Moderate green - Ice in 2008, not 2007
Dark purple or indigo - Ice in 2007, not 2008
Teal - No ice in either year
White - Snow in both years
Gray - Snow in 2008, but not 2007
Light green - Snow in 2007, not 2008
Dark kelly green - No snow in either year

It clearly shows more ice this year, but that is probably because there was more ice to begin with in mid-September. It shows more snow than last year, especially the southern Northwest Territories boundary, mid-Alaska, parts of the Eastern Russian peninsula, and northern Quebec. It shows less snow in southern Yukon, western 48 US, and parts of interior Russia.

I expected more snow in both 2007 and 2008 because the melted Arctic waters are warm and produce clouds and snow. Much of the ice that is there now is one-year-old ice and could melt rapidly next spring, even if the winter and spring are colder than usual.

This may be a bad comparison. On 2007 October 23, the ice in the Arctic suddenly increased dramatically. This may suggest that the ice on 2007 October 20 was under-reported. We should make a comparison on October 23 and see what happens.

[Extremeweatherguy]

Here is the October 23rd '07 vs '08 comparison:



This year still appears to be the winner in terms of autumn ice pack.

[jimvb]

Where did you get these graphics from?

I compared 2007 October 23 with 2008 October 23 recently and the recent graph shows the ice and snow advantage for 2008 over 2007 to be less than what I showed above, but it still showed 2008 to have more ice and snow.

[Extremeweatherguy]

Where did you get these graphics from?

I compared 2007 October 23 with 2008 October 23 recently and the recent graph shows the ice and snow advantage for 2008 over 2007 to be less than what I showed above, but it still showed 2008 to have more ice and snow.

I obtained them from this site: http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/tes ... 23&sy=2008