More thoughts....

Winter Weather Discussion

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More thoughts....

#1 Postby wxguy25 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:06 pm

Those of you who are worried your winter is over before its even off the ground can RELAX and enjoy these mild rainy periods in the MA and NE b/c it WILL NOT be long lived. The days are numbered after DEC 15.

BUT first lets deal w/ the N PAC signal since its been the main topic of discussion in various sectors the past several weeks. In doing so, let’s REWIND back to the MAY-JUL period 2004.

Image

Notice how the N PAC SSTA configuration is HIGHLY supportive of a +PNA and –EPO pattern w/ the cool pool centered near 40 N / 160 W and the warm pool east of 150W and N of 30N in the GOA. w/ this setup in place the ridge would develop in the means near 60N / 145W allowing the trough to set-up over the central US.

Image

This is one of the reasons for the RECORD warmth over AK and western Canada during the early spring. Under normal circumstances the Aleutian low contracts during the spring as the seasonal position of the westerlies lifts northward—thusly, the PNA is virtually absent during the period; however thanks to this particular SSTA configuration it was quite evident and dominating during the MAY-JUL period.

Why is this significant? It would appear to me there is a strong positive correlation between the MAY-JUN N PAC signal and that of the following winter. e.g., if the N PAC signal in MAY-JUN of a given year favors a +PNA pattern, the E PAC signal the following winter will do the same. This has worked in EVERY year which I have studied from 1856-1890 except for two--1869 and 1889.

MAY-JUN 1869:
Image

Winter 1869-70
Image

MAY-JUN 1889:
Image

Winter 1889-90
Image

As you can see the EL NINO of 1889 declined and La Nina conditions developed during the winter of 1889-90. The same occurred in 1869. This leads me to believe the reason why the correlations didn’t hold up for those two seasons is b/c the ENSO phase reversed. As you know, LA NINA conditions favor the opposite set-up over the N PAC which ties into the reason why LA NINA events are associated w/ a persistent RNA pattern and +EPO. In the years which DID work EL NINO conditions were prevalent.

We may be able to conclude that since the EPAC signal during the late spring and early Summer 2004 was such that it favored a +PNA/-EPO pattern that the aforesaid pattern will once again develop as we head into the winter GIVEN the fact that El Nino conditions (Albeit weak) are still present. Recall in the years where this did NOT work, the EL NINO decayed and the ENSO phase changed.

Over the past week or two we’ve already seen these changes take place, however we aren’t quite there yet. As of today the warm pool is still located near 45N latitude / 150 W longitude.

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/products/NCO ... nomaly.gif

The warm pool at the beginning of NOV was located WEST of 150 W; near 40N / 165W

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/products/NCO ... nomaly.gif

it is making headway ENE and eventually once it gets into the region bounded by 45N / 145W the pattern will begin to change since the ridge would develop along the west coast of NA, NOT in the GOA or near the Aleutians as it is now. The CURRENT location favors the mean trough position over the Rockies and Western plains it would indicate a weak to moderate SE ridge. This is where the NAO comes in since the appearance of a 50-50 low (or a strong/southwardly displaced PV) in combination of the block would act to suppress the height field along the east coast thusly killing the ridge even in spite of the fact that the long wave trough position is over the Rockes/Plains.

The trough position over NA this fall has moved in tandem w/ the variations in the N PAC signal—where when the warm pool was located W of 150W the ridge was near the Aleutians and the trough in the means over the West. Now that it has migrated eastward the ridge and trough positions have also.

D8-10 European MAY be showing the first signs of an Aleutian low and slightly +PNA pattern, however it would take at least a week or two for the pattern to completely reverse to one which is favorable for the mean trough position over the Central or EUS. The block development over Scandinavia is also critical b/c if it were to retrograde westward to Iceland and Greenland it would send the NAO negative. This takes us up to the week of DEC 15-21. Still no signs of a Caspian connection though near 70E in Asia.

Image

The pattern AFTER the week of DEC 15-21 should be one which is more conducive for a EUS snow event.
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#2 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:27 pm

Simply Great Discussion, wxguy, and yes I agree, after December 15th, we shall get a decent storm. ( I hope)


Let's hope its not after Christmas, I will be on vacation. and I don't want to miss it. lol :lol:
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#3 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:38 pm

Great discussion wxguy! Yeah I think the 2nd half of December will be very interesting in the EUS.

-Jeb
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#4 Postby wxguy25 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:41 pm

Oh BTW my website is making its debut tonight. You may read the same discussion at

http://www.geocities.com/usafrw/usablog.html
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#5 Postby wx247 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:42 pm

Wxguy, I am curious as to how you believe the change will affect the weather here in the Southern Plains. Thanks!
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#6 Postby wxguy25 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:00 pm

wx247 wrote:Wxguy, I am curious as to how you believe the change will affect the weather here in the Southern Plains. Thanks!


The storm track will slip further and further SE with time. This would mean that w/ the enhanced STJ, the Southern plains would be in a GOOD position to get in on it's fair share of wintry wx. I'll use DEC-JAN 2002-03 as an example of what can happen.
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#7 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:03 pm

Hmm........ Could get very nice for the 2nd half....
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#8 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:08 pm

wxguy25 wrote:The storm track will slip further and further SE with time. This would mean that w/ the enhanced STJ, the Southern plains would be in a GOOD position to get in on it's fair share of wintry wx. I'll use DEC-JAN 2002-03 as an example of what can happen.


WOO - HOO!!!!!!!!

:ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :bday: :bday: :bday: :hoola: :hoola: :hoola: :team: :team: :jump: :jump: :jump: :clap: :clap: :woo: :woo: :woo: :sled:

Sorry wxguy25, I know I'm too excited, but when you mention 2002-2003, I can't help but WHOOP FOR JOY!!!!!

-Jeb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
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#9 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:14 pm

Jeb, I will be in WV after Christmas... I will be back home in Jan 1st, so I hope we don't get a Nor'easter, because, I don't want to miss it, back home I mean....
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#10 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:15 pm

Jeb wrote:
wxguy25 wrote:The storm track will slip further and further SE with time. This would mean that w/ the enhanced STJ, the Southern plains would be in a GOOD position to get in on it's fair share of wintry wx. I'll use DEC-JAN 2002-03 as an example of what can happen.


WOO - HOO!!!!!!!!

:ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :ggreen: :bday: :bday: :bday: :hoola: :hoola: :hoola: :team: :team: :jump: :jump: :jump: :clap: :clap: :woo: :woo: :woo: :sled:

Sorry wxguy25, I know I'm too excited, but when you mention 2002-2003, I can't help but WHOOP FOR JOY!!!!!

-Jeb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D




I think you would be more excited if wxguy25 mentioned 1995-1996............... :P :D
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#11 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:22 pm

Chris the Weather Man wrote:I think you would be more excited if wxguy25 mentioned 1995-1996............... :P :D


That's a BIG Ten-Four!!!! If wxguy25 mentioned 1995-1996, I would be going literally WILD with joy!!!! I would be blasting my Christian songs that remind me of snow and dancing around just like I did at Massanutten ski resort on February 16, 2003 when I was there with all my church singles friends and it was 15 degrees with a stiff 35 mph NE wind off of a 1047MB high over Quebec with HUGE snowflakes gusting wildly past the streetlights!!!!!!!


-Jeb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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#12 Postby Skywatch_NC » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:26 pm

As for right now my folks and I are scheduled to have my aunt and uncle from central IN down here in Raleigh Dec. 28th through 31st...it'd be something else if they arrived here w/ some snow on the ground in central NC!!!! :D :D

I can at least DREAM for some white that early in the season for down here!! :D

Eric 8-)
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#13 Postby yoda » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:28 pm

Excellent discussion all, especially wxguy25.

If one belives the FA, there will be a major snowstorm for the time period between Dec. 25-31...
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#14 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:29 pm

Skywatch_NC wrote:As for right now my folks and I are scheduled to have my aunt and uncle from central IN down here in Raleigh Dec. 28th through 31st...it'd be something else if they arrived here w/ some snow on the ground here in central NC!!!! :D :D

I can at least DREAM for some white that early in the season for down here!! :D

Eric 8-)


Well my longtime wxbuddy I think your dream may come true! I hope it does!!!

When the big dog snow comes in the Mid Atlantic we need to hold the BIG Mid Atlantic Regional Storm2K Blizzard Bash and savor a HUGE snowball fight!!!!!

If anyone gets STUCK in the snow, don't you worry, I'll be there to dig you out!!!! For FREE!!!!!!!!!!! :)

-Jeb
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#15 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:30 pm

yoda wrote:Excellent discussion all, especially wxguy25.

If one belives the FA, there will be a major snowstorm for the time period between Dec. 25-31...



I hope not.............. I WON't BE HERE!!! :(


But if its 25-27 I will be in NJ.........
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#16 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm

Chris the Weather Man wrote:
yoda wrote:Excellent discussion all, especially wxguy25.

If one belives the FA, there will be a major snowstorm for the time period between Dec. 25-31...



I hope not.............. I WON't BE HERE!!! :(


But if its 25-27 I will be in NJ.........



Allright Chris I now believe The Big Dog blizzard will hit us approximately 24 hours after you get home!!! :)

-Jeb
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#17 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:39 pm

AHAHAHA! Good One, Jeb! CHRISTMAS BLIZZARD WOULD BE NICE.........
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#18 Postby yoda » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:41 pm

I am looking forward to late January and February... we should see a lot of snow here then.

Jeb, I would win that snowball fight. I would just use my Force powers and my Matrix skills... :P
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#19 Postby Anonymous » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:43 pm

yoda wrote:I am looking forward to late January and February... we should see a lot of snow here then.

Jeb, I would win that snowball fight. I would just use my Force powers and my Matrix skills... :P


I wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hades pitted against The Force AND Neo in the Matrix, so I would simply go on another 7-mile jebwalk.........:)

-Jeb
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#20 Postby Skywatch_NC » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:49 pm

yoda wrote:I am looking forward to late January and February... we should see a lot of snow here then.

Jeb, I would win that snowball fight. I would just use my Force powers and my Matrix skills... :P


I'll pin my hopes by at least mid January (the 14th to be specific) for a nice white 42nd birthday!! :D
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