The real truth about global warming..

[NorthGaWeather]

Solar activity was very high during the Medevial period which was a major factor for the warming then as were the Spörer and Maunder minima factors in the Little Ice Age. The problem now is that the current levels of Solar activity though the highest since 1780 are believed to account for only about 30% of currently observed warming. That leaves 70% to explain.

Steve

Key word here is believed. The Earth does go in cycles with its temps. Its been proven by many scientist. We have had little to do with increasing Earth's temp. The solar activity back then is highly argumentative and I'd like to see some facts not theory. Its extremely hard to believe we have had this great of an impact in that short amount of time. The facts right now don't support it.

[PurdueWx80]

Solar activity was very high during the Medevial period which was a major factor for the warming then as were the Spörer and Maunder minima factors in the Little Ice Age. The problem now is that the current levels of Solar activity though the highest since 1780 are believed to account for only about 30% of currently observed warming. That leaves 70% to explain.

Steve

Key word here is believed. The Earth does go in cycles with its temps. Its been proven by many scientist. We have had little to do with increasing Earth's temp. The solar activity back then is highly argumentative and I'd like to see some facts not theory. Its extremely hard to believe we have had this great of an impact in that short amount of time. The facts right now don't support it.

There are many facts which show humans have had an impact on both the environment and atmosphere - not just theory, but facts. It is naive to think otherwise when given so much information that proves it.

[NorthGaWeather]

Solar activity was very high during the Medevial period which was a major factor for the warming then as were the Spörer and Maunder minima factors in the Little Ice Age. The problem now is that the current levels of Solar activity though the highest since 1780 are believed to account for only about 30% of currently observed warming. That leaves 70% to explain.

Steve

Key word here is believed. The Earth does go in cycles with its temps. Its been proven by many scientist. We have had little to do with increasing Earth's temp. The solar activity back then is highly argumentative and I'd like to see some facts not theory. Its extremely hard to believe we have had this great of an impact in that short amount of time. The facts right now don't support it.

There are many facts which show humans have had an impact on both the environment and atmosphere - not just theory, but facts. It is naive to think otherwise when given so much information that proves it.

There is no proof humans have caused the Earth to warmed. Yes of course we have had impacts on the environment but nothing proves we have caused any warming. Its naive too believe some political junk and practice BS (Blind Science). the fact is nothing proves Global Warming to be our fault. I hate to break it to you but it is just theory right now. There is facts that show all planets in this solar system are warming. This was brought up in a environmental conference around here. The polar ice caps on Mars are melting and many other things are occuring. To blame it on humans is stupid and shows how little one understands the big picture.

[Aslkahuna]

Actually, Mars is the only Planet where we can determine any external source of warming since the Outer Planets have their own intrinsic heat sources-especially Jupiter. The warming on Mars would be a direct result of the Solar activity which serves as a good checkpoint for determining how much of our current warming is due to that factor and which serves as the basis for the recent determination by Scientists who are expert in the field of Solar-Terrestrial Relationships that Solar activity was responsible for 30% of the current warming. There is one totally indisputable point-if you increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere (along with Methane and Water Vapor) you increase the capability of the atmosphere to retain heat. Ice Core and other Paleoclimatological studies show that there is a direct relationship between CO2 levels and temperature trends-that is established scientific fact not theory as it is backed up by reproducible observations. Methane is normally too trace of an atmospheric component to be a factor though there is evidence to suggest that Methane releases from Methane Hydrate deposits in the oceans have resulted in warming events in the distant past and could do so in the future. Water Vapor is present in greater quantities than CO2 but is far less effective a Greenhouse Gas. CO2 measurements taken on Mauna Loa in Hawai'i-a location far removed from any local sources of the gas, show that current levels of CO2 are far higher than any concentration measured in the Ice Core samples or by any other method dating well back in time. Given the proven direct correlation between CO2
levels and temperture trends therefore it is not surprising that warming has been observed. So, again, the question is-what is the source of all of this excess CO2? Clearly, some of it has to do with the Earth's decreased
capability to absorb Carbon out of the atmosphere. It would appear that this decrease is a result of major deforestation around the Planet-something that Humans are responsible for directly by logging and slash and burn agricultural practices-the burning resulting in the release of Carbon into the atmosphere. The second cause for the increase in CO2 levels is due to an actual increase in the production of CO2 being released into the atmosphere particularly over the past 100 years and especially since WWII this is related to our increased use of fossil fuels over that period of time-this is the basis of my argument that we are
partially responsible for what's going on.

So the situation is this-if indeed we ARE responsible for part of the current warming and we can do something about it (though Kyoto is not the answer since China, the world's second greatest polluter behind the US, is exempt from its provisions), then we should at least try. The atmosphere is a nonlinear, dynamic and chaotic system and seemingly small changes in its ability to retain heat can result in some drastic changes down the line especially if a threshold is crossed and we enter a feedback loop. The major problem is, if we do something now to address the problem we won't see any results anytime soon and the other problem is that if we wait until we are absolutely certain about the cause of warming before we do anything if may be too late and we could then be in for a really rough go of it.

Steve

[NorthGaWeather]

The Kyoto accord is nothing but garbage. It will do nothing but drain our economy and Russia has made it very clear they hate it. The fact is we don't know enough about Space Weather or the atmosphere to know whats happening. There is no proof humans have anything to do with it. We need to learn more about the environment and not accuse the human race of global warming because the facts say we have little to do with it.

[Aslkahuna]

Well, I don't think all of the facts regarding Global Warming explicitly say that there is no human element involved because there are facts that point to anthropogenic sources having a role in the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and it's not debateable that an increase in CO2 results in an increase in the atmospheres ability to retain heat heat because that is an established chemical and physical fact based upon the location of the absoprtion lines in the spectrum of CO2. But we could ride this horse to death and continuously rehash the same statements but the bottom line is that you see the situation differently than I do and nothing I say will convince you otherwise and vice versa.

Steve

[NorthGaWeather]

Well, I don't think all of the facts regarding Global Warming explicitly say that there is no human element involved because there are facts that point to anthropogenic sources having a role in the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and it's not debateable that an increase in CO2 results in an increase in the atmospheres ability to retain heat heat because that is an established chemical and physical fact based upon the location of the absoprtion lines in the spectrum of CO2. But we could ride this horse to death and continuously rehash the same statements but the bottom line is that you see the situation differently than I do and nothing I say will convince you otherwise and vice versa.

Steve

But you do agree we need to research space weather and the environment more to actually know what is happening. I found the article interesting.

From OSU/FN....

"Peruvian Plants Debunk Kyoto

Despite the anxiety-fest in Buenos Aires, the real global warming news this week comes from the Peruvian glaciers.

Ohio State University glaciologist Lonnie Thompson reported at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union that he found two prehistoric plant beds dating back 5,000 and 50,000 years, respectively, near a high Andean glacier. The plants' ages were pinpointed through carbon dating; until recently, the plants had been covered by ice.

Climate clamor-ers, upon hearing such news, will likely jump to the conclusion that the receding glaciers, which revealed the plants after covering them for thousands of years, are simply more evidence of manmade global warming.

But a more thoughtful person might point out the plant find is a strong indication that, thousands of years ago, the high Andean climate must have been warm enough to cause the glacier to be recessed and to allow for the plants to grow in the first place — a time frame that obviously predates oil and gas companies, the internal combustion engine, the industrial revolution, and recorded history.

So neither the warm climate that sustained high Andean plant growth 5,000 years ago, nor the subsequent frigid climate that caused the glacierization, could possibly have been caused by human activity.

So if natural forces caused those climate changes, isn’t it reasonable to conclude that perhaps natural forces might also be largely responsible for whatever climate changes may be occurring now?

“Any prudent person would agree that we don’t yet understand the complexities with the climate system,” said Thompson. It’s too bad he didn’t deliver that message in Buenos Aires."

[Aslkahuna]

Yes more study in all areas including possible anthropogenic causes is needed. The Carbon cycle and most notably how the atmosphere gets rid of excess Carbon especially needs to be studied. The problem is, CO2 HAS increased sharply and sooner or later it will have an effect and we may not have time to do those studies before something grim happens. OTOH, I do NOT support Kyoto at all because I believe that if some of us are required to take action then the ENTIRE Human Race should be asked to do so. Especially China.

Steve