Big Tornado Outbreak March 2-3

[StormingB81]

Need some good news? They found a baby alive in a field. They said they baby was identified as well as her parents but didnt say if her parents where alive or not. But to have survived and laying in a field is just a miracle..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/baby ... 34491.html

Edit: Now it is being said she is the family's only survivor..

[northjaxpro]

Good news. The SPC has cancelled the tornado watch that had been in effect for all of North Florida.

We are in for a good soaking rain here in Jax for the next 12 -18 hours as the cold front slowly sags southeastward through the region.

[northjaxpro]

Need some good news? They found a baby alive in a field. They said they baby was identified as well as her parents but didnt say if her parents where alive or not. But to have survived and laying in a field is just a miracle..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/baby ... 34491.html

Edit: Now it is being said she is the family's only survivor..

Now, in the midst of all of this tragic news we have seen with this massive tornado outbreak, this story here is absolutely a miracle for the ages! Talk about a inspiration!! I am so heartbroken to learn the baby's parents were killed in the tornado.

[CrazyC83]

Some ratings:

West Liberty area - Preliminary EF3

Henryville, Marysville, etc. - Unofficial word suggests EF4, but I haven't seen an NWS site say that yet

[cycloneye]

Crazy,101 preliminary reports of Tornadoes in the latest SPC update. Graphic at Sticky thread.

[Cyclenall]

Some ratings:

West Liberty area - Preliminary EF3

Henryville, Marysville, etc. - Unofficial word suggests EF4, but I haven't seen an NWS site say that yet

The West Liberty damage looked worse than the Goderich Ontario F3 from last summer. It reminded me of Goderich the the downtown all in tatters. I don't like preliminary reports for large tornadoes because then when the mass media reports it back to everyone, people get that rating stuck in their mind and judge everything based on it. A day later it's upgraded and no one talks about it and absorbs it. The most famous example was Joplin EF5.

Any information on the Paintsville KY, Bowling Green KY, and that very long tracking tornado in Alabama late last night?

Need some good news? They found a baby alive in a field. They said they baby was identified as well as her parents but didnt say if her parents where alive or not. But to have survived and laying in a field is just a miracle..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/baby ... 34491.html

Edit: Now it is being said she is the family's only survivor..

I wouldn't call that good news then, more like sad news because now he/she doesn't have a family.

And I'm going back to sleep....

That's when I woke up.

[StormingB81]

Need some good news? They found a baby alive in a field. They said they baby was identified as well as her parents but didnt say if her parents where alive or not. But to have survived and laying in a field is just a miracle..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/baby ... 34491.html

Edit: Now it is being said she is the family's only survivor..

I wouldn't call that good news then, more like sad news because now he/she doesn't have a family.

And I'm going back to sleep....

That's when I woke up.[/quote]


Sorry I said that before I edited it and found out she was the lone survivor....but a miracle that the baby survived I guess it goes both ways great and sad for the baby

[CrazyC83]

Surprising, West Liberty was only low-end EF3 (140 mph). Given the size of that couplet, despite the devastation, they might have dodged a bullet, since that kind of intensity is survivable in a normal house without a basement. Of the 8 deaths known from that tornado, 6 are in the West Liberty area, but only 1 or 2 I believe were in town.

The couplet that went over it clearly looked like an unsurvivable strong EF4 or EF5 tornado, it had the look of a Tuscaloosa or Joplin.

The big one in Alabama, so far, is EF2 but only a small section was surveyed. Those others mentioned have not yet been surveyed.

The Indiana long-tracker has been confirmed as at least EF4, but there are several things complicating the survey, including the presence of overlapping tracks.

[brunota2003]

The mountains very well may have helped. There is most likely some truth to the myth that towns are "protected" if they have a mountain right next door. It would be harder for the strongest winds to reach the surface, because the mountains would disrupt the lower portion of the circulation (friction can be a life saver). Now think about it, if it hadn't of been in a mountainous area, and instead flat land like the Midwest, what would the winds of been like at the surface?

[CrazyC83]

The mountains very well may have helped. There is most likely some truth to the myth that towns are "protected" if they have a mountain right next door. It would be harder for the strongest winds to reach the surface, because the mountains would disrupt the lower portion of the circulation (friction can be a life saver). Now think about it, if it hadn't of been in a mountainous area, and instead flat land like the Midwest, what would the winds of been like at the surface?

Hard to say, but on 4/27, there was a solid EF4 tornado in the middle of the Smoky Mountains. Fortunately, it was in a remote area, but it did tear huge towers and trees to pieces. Not sure if I agree with that theory. But then again, 4/27 had a more dynamic system, so that could have been a 5 instead of a 4 in flat land in that case.

If that was the case, it made the difference between severe damage and total destruction.

[EF-5bigj]

That story was heartbreaking I don't trust the preliminary reports either as that storm system looked insane.

[brunota2003]

The mountains very well may have helped. There is most likely some truth to the myth that towns are "protected" if they have a mountain right next door. It would be harder for the strongest winds to reach the surface, because the mountains would disrupt the lower portion of the circulation (friction can be a life saver). Now think about it, if it hadn't of been in a mountainous area, and instead flat land like the Midwest, what would the winds of been like at the surface?

Hard to say, but on 4/27, there was a solid EF4 tornado in the middle of the Smoky Mountains. Fortunately, it was in a remote area, but it did tear huge towers and trees to pieces. Not sure if I agree with that theory. But then again, 4/27 had a more dynamic system, so that could have been a 5 instead of a 4 in flat land in that case.

If that was the case, it made the difference between severe damage and total destruction.

People give tornadoes way more credit than they deserve. A lot of people think they are impervious to everything...but they aren't indestructible. I bet the winds with the Liberty tornado were very high just a few hundred feet off the ground...but when the funnel is going up and down and up and down again on large hills, the areas in the "valleys" can be more sheltered if the hill blocks some of the wind. A 1000+ foot tall hill is nothing to sneeze at...

[brunota2003]

Someone should do a study...look through the tornado record for an area and compare counties with mountainous terrain, counties with hilly terrain, and counties that are flat with each other. I would bet that counties that are flat have more tornadoes and more violent tornadoes than most, if not all, mountainous terrain counties. Also, forested areas compared to open areas.

[psyclone]

Someone should do a study...look through the tornado record for an area and compare counties with mountainous terrain, counties with hilly terrain, and counties that are flat with each other. I would bet that counties that are flat have more tornadoes and more violent tornadoes than most, if not all, mountainous terrain counties. Also, forested areas compared to open areas.

Dr Forbes has discussed the impact of hilly terrain on tornadoes. he said nearby mountains can disrupt or enhance a tornadic circulation. it's not as cut and dry as one might assume.

[psyclone]

with respect to tornadoes in mountainous areas, I suspect frequency is lower as the mountains act as a physical barrier to disparate air masses, generally a prerequisite for severe weather. I don't think the mountains themselves prevent tornadoes, they just make it more difficult for the ingredients to combine. if they are able to combine, you can get tornadoes. we've seen plenty of examples. look at 5-31-85 in PA. Or search "empire alabama tornado" on youtube to see a beauty offroading in some hilly terrain. it's no secret why north america has more tornadoes than anywhere else in the world. our geography makes it effortless for wildly divergent air masses to duke it out. we could travel from the western gulf coast (subtropics) to the subarctic well into canada and be on essentially flat terrain the whole way. no wonder we're such a magnet for trouble.

[Texas Snowman]

The couplet that went over it clearly looked like an unsurvivable strong EF4 or EF5 tornado, it had the look of a Tuscaloosa or Joplin.

I thought the same thing. Had insane velocities as it approached the town. The fact that it wasn't a Joplin or Tuscaloosa type of tornado is something of a miracle IMO given that radar presentation.

[Cyclenall]

I don't agree with any of the mountains disrupting the tornado discussion, it isn't a tropical cyclone where the landmass actually impinges on the structure of it. The heights around the areas effected by Friday's outbreak in theory would have absolutely no effect at all. psyclone's explanation would be the closest to being true in a bigger sense but the forces at work for a tornado on the ground moving into a town/city would not impact the twister. Buildings in the way of a tornado do not impede its strength so they are impervious to anything not atmospheric related.

[brunota2003]

A 30 foot tall, 50 foot wide structure that breaks apart fairly easily is not even close in comparison to a 1000+ foot hill that is 1/2 a mile or more wide, and does not move or break at all. That's like comparing a car that hits a 2x4 to a car that hits a brick wall, and expecting the same kind of damage.

[Texas Snowman]

Interesting comments from Henry Margusity. I find it really interesting the role that social media is playing now in warning people, saving lives:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-b ... area/62368


"I think overall the meteorologists from AccuWeather, NWS, local TV stations, radio stations and Storm Chasers all did a great job keeping up with a weather situation that was totally out of control. At any one time, there were at least a dozen tornado warnings and over 40 warnings overall covering the severe thunderstorms and flooding.

I do believe we will learn a lot from this outbreak as the meteorologists review the event over the next several months. And I think the one thing we will learn is that social media, specifically Twitter, played a huge role in delivering the information quickly to people. I was watching Twitter all day and read great information on where tornadoes were going and what areas were under warnings. I even saw information on areas that were cleared from the tornado outbreak.

It was a bad day, but I hope in the end, we all saved lives."

[brunota2003]

For warnings...I wonder if we could get a little cooperation between NWS offices during major outbreaks. I noticed NWS Jackson was swamped with warnings, and they could not keep up and update all the warnings. Instead, they had to leave some warnings to run for their entirety (with no updates, just the initial warning text), in favor of going after updating the more dangerous storms (ie, clear debris ball, or confirmed tornado).

I think they could have benefited from another local office stepping in and helping out (an office not being impacted by severe weather, and such). Be like, I'll grab these counties, you focus on the rest. That way the lines aren't stretched too thin, especially when it comes to updating or ending warnings.