warning sirens activation......

[Dionne]

I really don't know where to post this thread. So, I'll try here. If Mods think it should be somewhere else, please do so.

During the recent Derecho event the NWS "suggested" siren activation for our community. The storm had a history of 80 mph straight line winds with large hail. The sirens never activated.

During a previous event....the same thing happened. I had gone to our mayor asking WHY? He told me there were some glitches in the chain of command that gives the authorization to activate the sirens.

I went over the mayors head and asked the same question to the Copiah County Emergency Management.

I got a reply from MEMA. They have requested my presence at a meeting on May 13 at 9 AM at our mayors office. I have accepted the invitation.

This is a first for me. I have never had any dealings with emergency management personnel. I don't know what to expect.

Anyone with experience and advice would be appreciated.

[Dionne]

FYI, the meeting took place this morning. The mayor, the director of emergency management, myself and a dispatcher were all present. There was a lot of confusion. Supposedly the alert to activate the sirens does come down through a chain of command. Although there was the issue of activating the sirens without a command. A heated discussion evolved as to whether or not the fire dept could activate the siren without a command. The fire chief said yes, the emergency manager said yes and the dispatcher said no. When I asked who has precedent over activation.......as in a storm spotter versus a NWS meteorologist......the meeting pretty much fell apart.

From what I learned today.....do not rely on the sirens. We got a bunch of well paid guys driving government trucks that are not on the same page.

[SaskatchewanScreamer]

I'm curious as to what would happen if they did activate the alarm and the winds that they were expecting didn't materialize? Would it really disrupt life that much there if they were wrong? I'm thinking being wrong would be a whole lot easier to live with especially when one considers many could die/be hurt when the alarm isn't heard.

We don't have alarms here but we all know to turn the weather station on if the weather looks iffy.....we've certainly had some warnings that didn't pan out but we've had many that have and we certainly appreciate the time given to us to prepare.

[Dionne]

Saska.....your question was discussed. We have a lot of older retired folks in this small community. There was a concern voiced by the emergency management director that frequent sirens would scare to many people. My response was better to be scared and alive than dead without a warning.

My plan is to begin documenting the events and their respective timelines. As in.....how long did activation of sirens take when warning was issued, did sirens activate, etc.

Whats happening here is that there are to many people in the chain of command. It should be a straight shot from NWS to the person hitting the switch.

[senorpepr]

Growing up in the Plains where tornadoes are frequent... the biggest problem is too frequent warnings. It's not a condition of scaring older people, but rather warning people too often when nothing occurs. It's the basic "crying wolf" story. That's one of the largest challenges with sirens is that people don't take them seriously.


Now, I've been against the over usage of warning sirens, and I'll speak my case again here. Warning sirens are NOT meant to the average citizen. They are designed to warn people who are outside. Often times, people rely on sirens, but when the moment counts (during a severe thunderstorm), the weather outside prevents the citizens from hearing the siren properly. People NEED to focus on weather radios, NOT inadequate sirens. But I'll hop off that soapbox for now...

I agree with you, Dionne, that it appears too many people are in the chain. It should be a simple activation straight from the NWS. It sounds like a bunch of misorganization to me.

[Dionne]

Growing up in the Plains where tornadoes are frequent... the biggest problem is too frequent warnings. It's not a condition of scaring older people, but rather warning people too often when nothing occurs. It's the basic "crying wolf" story. That's one of the largest challenges with sirens is that people don't take them seriously.


Now, I've been against the over usage of warning sirens, and I'll speak my case again here. Warning sirens are NOT meant to the average citizen. They are designed to warn people who are outside. Often times, people rely on sirens, but when the moment counts (during a severe thunderstorm), the weather outside prevents the citizens from hearing the siren properly. People NEED to focus on weather radios, NOT inadequate sirens. But I'll hop off that soapbox for now...

I agree with you, Dionne, that it appears too many people are in the chain. It should be a simple activation straight from the NWS. It sounds like a bunch of misorganization to me.

We are still getting funds from Katrina. We are the northern most declared disaster county by FEMA/MEMA. Our emergency management director is using the money for new trucks, radios, DSL, sirens, contractors and improvements to our industrial park evacuation. Along with the federal and state money there are grants along with lease payment exemptions. This is all recent news....it came out in the weekly newspaper published Thursday.

[wx247]

I would chime in here and say that I have been involved in similar discussions although it is with our school district. Earlier in May when the massive derecho moved through SE KS into SW MO here, the district had no organizational plan in place in how to handle it. We, at the high school, moved the students to the tornado shelter ahead of the actual winds reaching us. The junior high, however, didn't.

The issue is that the administration wasn't sure if they should move the students IF there was no tornado warning or a siren. My $.02 was that 80-90 mph winds is an EF0 tornado and would you move the students to the shelter if you knew an EF0 was moving this way?

Additionally, Senor is absolutely right. Sirens aren't designed to alert people who can be "in the know" but that is what so many people rely on. I suggest that there be a procedure drawn up and it be followed. Of course there will be exceptions (there always are) but I would include a confirmed derecho or massive straight line wind event into the siren sounding category.

[Dionne]

So our small community has these new sirens. They have not been installed. An unnamed contractor is supposed to do the installation. When? We don't know that either. It gets better. We now know there will be two warning sounds. The first is what they call a "wailing" sound......this signals an enemy attack. Don't laugh, I'm not kidding. The second is a long consistent sound that is a storm warning.

I can hear it now.....Are the commies coming or is that a tornado?

Yesterday was the first of the month. It's usually the day our sirens are tested at precisely noon. Someone forgot.

Somehow, I don't think going to the mayors office again will make any difference.

[Siberian Express]

So our small community has these new sirens. They have not been installed. An unnamed contractor is supposed to do the installation. When? We don't know that either. It gets better. We now know there will be two warning sounds. The first is what they call a "wailing" sound......this signals an enemy attack. Don't laugh, I'm not kidding. The second is a long consistent sound that is a storm warning.

I can hear it now.....Are the commies coming or is that a tornado?

Yesterday was the first of the month. It's usually the day our sirens are tested at precisely noon. Someone forgot.

Somehow, I don't think going to the mayors office again will make any difference.

Ddionne, I believe that the wailing siren is the signal for a civil emergency (formerly Defense?), i.e., call the volunteer firefighters, nuke plant emergency or evacuations necessary, or, an air raid..haha...

[jinftl]

just a thought....with the advent of new technologies, those may be the way to go as far as alerting the greatest number of people....or at least supplementing traditional sirens in those areas that use them (no area i have lived in ever has)...i know, for example, that i pay $3.00/month for accuweather on my cell phone and one of the free features they offer is a text message any time weather watches or warnings are issued for my zip code. Some local news stations in my area will also send weather alerts via email or text to your phone for free as well. Not to mention the way that info could be transmitted on a massive scale via twitter and who knows what other future online networking sites/capabilities.

if nothing else, these methods do the most effective thing possible in keeping people safe...which is really what the goal is- by providing the public with the information to make informed decisions on how to stay safe on their own....thereby eliminating the 'middleman' of local govt and authorties doing...or not doing...that. Newer technologies have empowered us by providing real-time info firsthand directly from the source.

[Shoshana]

When we lived in Plano, they put in a warning system with like 10 different sounds including a voice recording. The problem was- you needed a cheat sheet to figure out what the noise meant, and you couldn't understand anything the recording said. I don't know if they still use it.

Here in Austin, they don't even have sirens but they do tell people to get weather radios.

[jinftl]

People may not have weather radios on them..esp at work or school or in their cars or if they are sleeping....but cell phones...those everyone has.....i can't advocate enough the use of text messaging to alert folks real-time....and most of these capabilities (where offered by local news, accuweather, etc) are free to a few bucks a month. I received a tornado warning alert as I was driving through a nasty storm yesterday....felt that was invaluable info to have at that time (no tornado thankfully took place...it was radar indicated). The text provided me with the zip codes effected and then went on to the actual NWS warning issued.

When we lived in Plano, they put in a warning system with like 10 different sounds including a voice recording. The problem was- you needed a cheat sheet to figure out what the noise meant, and you couldn't understand anything the recording said. I don't know if they still use it.

Here in Austin, they don't even have sirens but they do tell people to get weather radios.

[Shoshana]

Are the text weather warnings from a tv station or are they from NWS?

[jinftl]

i get them from tv stations and from accuweather.....but they provide direct text from nws watches/warnings the moment they are issued

Are the text weather warnings from a tv station or are they from NWS?

[Shoshana]

oh, ok. I'll check into that... thanks!

[jinftl]

Free weather alert site...sends texts and emails
http://www.weatherusa.net/alerts/

In Austin, you can also have the following new channel send you free text alerts for severe weather:
http://www.kxan.com/subindex/mobile

oh, ok. I'll check into that... thanks!

[Shoshana]

cool! KXAN tends to have good weatherpeople too...

[Jevo]

I live in Boca Raton, and oddly enough we have a siren system in place.... You do have to imagine it though..... The average person in Boca has never heard one of these types of sirens in their life.... So they were tseting it last week with a voice that signified that it was a test and people were still a little on edge, looking around in the sky etc.

I do give them credit though... Last Wednesday we experienced straight line wind gusts in excess of 70 mph and that thing was going crazy about 5 mins before. They have also contracted with CodeRed telephone notification system, which explains the phone call that we got while the sirens were going off.

It seems like one of the EMs in the city have a new toy and they're not afraid to use it.

The City of Boca Raton has contracted with Emergency Communications Network, Inc., of Ormond Beach, Florida, for its “CodeRED” high-speed telephone emergency notification services. The CodeRED system gives city officials the ability to deliver pre-recorded emergency telephone notification/information messages to targeted areas or the entire city at a rate of up to 60,000 calls per hour.

[PTPatrick]

Just thought I would put in my 2 cents. I have firsthand witnessed that results of "over activating" sirens. Denver is quite a large county, probably close to 30 miles from SW corner to the Airport. The airport sticks off in the middle of the plains while the rest of Denver is generally tornado free, particularly the part of the county west of I-25(not a rule, but a generality). At least twice this summer I have sirens go off in my neighborhood when it was COMPLETELY sunny, and the tornadic cell was near DIA 20 miles away, moving AWAY from Denver. I guess there isnt anything wrong with county wide sirens, other than people in downtown or on the west side of the county probably have a sense of complacency anyway. I was in Target during one of them and people were standing around the parking lot looking around and listening the sirens wondering where the tornado was. It was a little comical.

[Shoshana]

They need zone warning activation - now that the weather service can put parts of counties under tornado warnings they should be able to just activate the parts of the area...